Author Topic: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?  (Read 1065 times)

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2022, 01:12:13 pm »
Weihenstephan Hefebank lists 34/70, 34/70-6.94and also 34/78.

There was a masterbrewers podcast with Fermentis about their 34/70 which was referred to as “their version” of this yeast. I imagine there are differences in subtle performance characteristics between different companies versions of the products.

In my own brewery Fermentis 34/70 and Diamond lager perform very differently. I’ve heard they are both 34/70, though there is at least some reference on the internet that Diamond is Munich 308.

My experience is the same, with Diamond and 34/70 performing vastly different from each other.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2022, 05:55:29 am »
Watching the interview with Altstadt's head brewer, they use Wyeast 2124. They ferment at 50 F. He said you want a slow start to fermentation. A 24 hour lag time is desirable.

Their Altstadt Lager (Munich Helles) won a Gold at the GABF.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2022, 03:19:50 pm »
I disagree with Dave somewhat.  From what the manufacturer has told me, 34/70 has the same lineage as 2124.  But that doesn't mean they produce the same results.
I have always heard that 2124 (Weihenstephan), 34/70 and Lallemand Diamond all come from the same place.  Could they be slightly different or have different numbers for attenuation, flocculation, etc. now?  Yes.  I have never heard that 34/70 and 2035 were close.  I have used 2035 a few times to make something close to Yuengling.  It has a very distinct character.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2022, 04:29:08 pm »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2022, 06:25:46 pm »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.

Carlsberg might use it but I would be more likely to call it the Weihenstephan strain as opposed to the Carlsberg strain.  That description of "the most used lager yeast strain in the world" has been applied to 2124 and also to Diamond.  I believe 34/70 is either the same or similar.  2124 is from Wyeast, 34/70 is from Fermentis and Diamond is from Lallemand. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2022, 05:22:21 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.

Carlsberg might use it but I would be more likely to call it the Weihenstephan strain as opposed to the Carlsberg strain.  That description of "the most used lager yeast strain in the world" has been applied to 2124 and also to Diamond.  I believe 34/70 is either the same or similar.  2124 is from Wyeast, 34/70 is from Fermentis and Diamond is from Lallemand.

We have 10 gallons fermenting now, a Premium Pale Czech Pilsner. Split batch, 5 gallons with Diamond (multiple generation harvest), and 5 gallons with Wyeast 2124, 2 fresh smack packs. Both are now working nicely at 50 degrees. Double decoction mash. 85% RO water, 15% moderately hard filtered tap water.

Will there be a noticeable difference in the finished beers?
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2022, 05:27:58 am »
We have 10 gallons fermenting now, a Premium Pale Czech Pilsner. Split batch, 5 gallons with Diamond (multiple generation harvest), and 5 gallons with Wyeast 2124, 2 fresh smack packs. Both are now working nicely at 50 degrees. Double decoction mash. 85% RO water, 15% moderately hard filtered tap water.

Will there be a noticeable difference in the finished beers?

Most likely, yes.  They will both make tasty lagers.  Attenuations are different.  Even if the flavors are identical (which they probably won't be), you might pick up differences in alcohol and mouthfeel.
Dave

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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2022, 07:12:32 am »
We have 10 gallons fermenting now, a Premium Pale Czech Pilsner. Split batch, 5 gallons with Diamond (multiple generation harvest), and 5 gallons with Wyeast 2124, 2 fresh smack packs. Both are now working nicely at 50 degrees. Double decoction mash. 85% RO water, 15% moderately hard filtered tap water.

Will there be a noticeable difference in the finished beers?
My guess is that the 2124 batch will taste better but that's probably my bias coming through.  It's one of my favorite lager yeast strains and I think 2124 might be the pin for one of my debit cards!   ;D  Although I always hear that 34/70 and Diamond are similar yeasts, what I get is a sort of "2124-lite" character.  It's very similar but not quite the same.  When the beer is done and you have a glass of that beer in front of you that was made with 2124, take a big whiff of it.  That aroma is what sets the 2124 beer apart (for me anyway).  There is good aroma from Diamond and 34/70 too but it's not quite the same. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2022, 07:32:10 am »
We have 10 gallons fermenting now, a Premium Pale Czech Pilsner. Split batch, 5 gallons with Diamond (multiple generation harvest), and 5 gallons with Wyeast 2124, 2 fresh smack packs. Both are now working nicely at 50 degrees. Double decoction mash. 85% RO water, 15% moderately hard filtered tap water.

Will there be a noticeable difference in the finished beers?
My guess is that the 2124 batch will taste better but that's probably my bias coming through.  It's one of my favorite lager yeast strains and I think 2124 might be the pin for one of my debit cards!   ;D  Although I always hear that 34/70 and Diamond are similar yeasts, what I get is a sort of "2124-lite" character.  It's very similar but not quite the same.  When the beer is done and you have a glass of that beer in front of you that was made with 2124, take a big whiff of it.  That aroma is what sets the 2124 beer apart (for me anyway).  There is good aroma from Diamond and 34/70 too but it's not quite the same.

As soon as both beers are finished, and in the keg, I will provide a detailed flavor analysis. Not only from me, but a few of my brewing friends as well. Can't wait!
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2022, 04:36:15 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2022, 06:08:21 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
That's what I was thinking as well
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Offline denny

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2022, 08:38:14 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
That's what I was thinking as well

I third that
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Offline narvin

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2022, 09:09:24 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
That's what I was thinking as well

I third that

I don't believe there are any commercial Saaz strains left.  At least not in the homebrew catalog.

Any idea why they called it "Bohemian Lager" ?

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2022, 11:05:38 am »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
That's what I was thinking as well

I third that

I don't believe there are any commercial Saaz strains left.  At least not in the homebrew catalog.

Any idea why they called it "Bohemian Lager" ?

Maybe this?

Bohemia is the westernmost and largest historical region of the Czech lands in the present-day Czech Republic. Bohemia can also refer to a wider area consisting of the historical Lands of the Bohemian Crown ruled by the Bohemian kings, including Moravia and Czech Silesia, in which case the smaller region is referred to as Bohemia proper as a means of distinction.

My Grandmother, and her sister, both spoke fluent Bohemian. Referred to as "Czech" today. This is the country my ancestors came from.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 11:07:28 am by Bel Air Brewing »
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Wyeast 2124 = Saflager W-34/70?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2022, 11:08:09 pm »
Is 2124 not the Carlsberg strain, as per the Wyeast website?



Species: Saccharomyces pastorianus

Profile: This Carlsberg type yeast is the most widely used lager strain in the world. This strain produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. A versatile strain, that is great to use with lagers or Pilsners for fermentations in the 45-55°F (8-12°C) range. It may also be used for Common beer production with fermentations at 65-68 °F (18-20 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.


Maybe they are referring to S. carlsbergensis - aka a Type I/Saaz-type lager yeast, vs a Type-II/Frohberg strain (as W-34/70 is)
That's what I was thinking as well

I third that

I don't believe there are any commercial Saaz strains left.  At least not in the homebrew catalog.

Any idea why they called it "Bohemian Lager" ?
Somewhere i read or heard on a podcast that no Saaz strains were identified in the genetic testing of commercial strains.
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