[Shmello]

I just did my first all-grain brew (BIAB) after 8 somewhat successful extract brews. The wort came out ok, but the SG was way less than expected. BeerSmith shows my mash efficiency as 55%.

I used 8.3 gallons of water for 13 pounds of grain (11 pounds 2 row, 1 pound Crystal 40, 1 pound Crystal 80). I heated the water to 159 degrees trying to get to a mash temp of 152. It actually started out as 156, and dropped to about 145 after an hour. I believe my SG was around 1.035 at this point. The pre-boil volume was about 7.5, and after an hour boil I ended up with about 5.5 in the fermenter and a few quarts left (my hop bag came undone so there was some sludge I kept out). The OG going into the fermenter was 1.052.

My first thought was that the poor mash temperature control was responsible for the poor performance, going in too high and letting it drop too low. However, the guy at my LHBS feels that my water volume was way too much. He suggests using 1.3 quarts/pound of water for an hour,  drain the kettle into another vessel, and then do the same thing again with another similar amount of water for 20 to 25 minutes before combining the two runnings into the boil. He thinks I’d get efficiency of 78-80% if I follow his method.

I get that he is essentially mimicking a mash and batch sparge method, but it seems different to the many BIAB instructions I read in preparation for the brew. It also seems somewhat cumbersome and kind of defeating the whole idea of BIAB (although technically I think I could do it).

I’d appreciate any thoughts about this. Did my large water volume cause problems in the mash? Should I do what he suggests of essentially conducting a batch sparge? Should I instead be focusing on other aspects such as better temperature control or maybe pH management (I do not yet have a pH meter and have no idea of the mash pH; I added some water salts but no acid in the water)?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Drewch]

There's are def others here with more experience, but I've done a fair bit of BIAB.

8.3 gallons sounds about right for a normal strength 5-gallon batch with a one-hour boil.  And as long as your temp stayed in that brewer's window (call it 154±10 °F ish), you might affect the fermentability of your wort, but you should be extracting sugars.

In two years of no-sparge BIAB, the thing that improved my efficiency the most was grinding the grain as fine as I possibly could.  If you have a mill, crank it literally as low as it'll go.  And stir thoroughly as you're putting the grain in to make sure there are no clumps.

After that, I'd look into mash pH.  I noticed a couple of times a lower extraction on really pale grists, and I think it may have been pH-driven.

But you should be able to hit 75%+ efficiency with single-infusion, no-sparge BIAB without any extreme efforts.

[BrewBama]

I agree. Grain crush is usually the culprit for low efficiency in BIAB no sparge.

[Megary]

There's are def others here with more experience, but I've done a fair bit of BIAB.

8.3 gallons sounds about right for a normal strength 5-gallon batch with a one-hour boil.  And as long as your temp stayed in that brewer's window (call it 154±10 °F ish), you might affect the fermentability of your wort, but you should be extracting sugars.

In two years of no-sparge BIAB, the thing that improved my efficiency the most was grinding the grain as fine as I possibly could. If you have a mill, crank it literally as low as it'll go.  And stir thoroughly as you're putting the grain in to make sure there are no clumps.

After that, I'd look into mash pH.  I noticed a couple of times a lower extraction on really pale grists, and I think it may have been pH-driven.

But you should be able to hit 75%+ efficiency with single-infusion, no-sparge BIAB without any extreme efforts.

This.

BIAB extraction benefits from a (much) finer grain crush. 

[Kevin]

Mill your own grains and mill them pretty fine. You can get a set or automotive feeler gauges and set the roller gap to something under 0.030. I used 0.025 - 0.028.

I wouldn't listen to that guy at the LHBS. It sounds as if he has little or no background in BIAB. A full volume mash is just fine and has worked for brewers all over the world for many, many years.

A drop of just 3° from strike to mash temp is typical when doing a full volume BIAB. As for regulating the temp during the mash use the heat source under your kettle. I am assuming you are using propane? Just monitor your mash temp along the way and turn the flame on when it dips a few degrees.

Stir every fifteen minutes. That is also a good time to do that mash temp check.

Squeeze the living bejeezus out of your bag after you lift it. A pair of grill gloves is a good idea.

Keep a pound or two of DME on hand to bump up the gravity if necessary.

Make sure you have an accurate equipment profile set up in Beersmith and record all of your data during every brew session so that you can continually adjust that profile. The more measurements you take and use the more accurate the Beersmith estimates will be.

[Shmello]

Make sure you have an accurate equipment profile set up in Beersmith and record all of your data during every brew session so that you can continually adjust that profile. The more measurements you take and use the more accurate the Beersmith estimates will be.

Thanks everyone for the replies. So it sounds like you guys agree that my LHBS guy really doesn’t understand BIAB very well and he is just trying to get me to do a traditional mash and sparge without the right equipment for that. Obviously he’s generally more experienced with brewing so I didn’t want to reject his advice out of hand, but I probably read 20 articles or books on BIAB and no one else does it the way he suggested, so I was leery of it.

Based on the suggestions, it sounds like my next purchase should be a grain mill. Even at the LHBS the rollers aren’t adjustable (or at least that’s what he said, although he may just not want customers fiddling with it). I guess I’ve read that some suggest putting it through the mill twice, so I may try that in the interim. My main guide has been John Palmer’s “How to Brew” and he says to use the same grind so I went with that, although the consensus advice from you guys and most of the articles I read is to grind it fine. So that’s what I’ll do going forward.

I am using a propane burner. I did stir and temp check every 15 minutes but I didn’t add heat even when I saw it dropping. Palmer writes that the temp is OK as long as it is above 140 so I let it go rather than deal with potential scorching issues, but the overall drop by the end seemed a lot worse than most of the YouTube brewers I’d viewed.

Palmer also says not to squeeze the bag but most people seem to disagree so I did purchase gloves and I did squeeze as much as I could.

As to Kevin’s suggestion above regarding data, what measurements should I be taking? Volumes of liquid at various stages? I didn’t see a lot of measurements in the profile that I understood.

[jverduin]

Make sure you have an accurate equipment profile set up in Beersmith and record all of your data during every brew session so that you can continually adjust that profile. The more measurements you take and use the more accurate the Beersmith estimates will be.

Thanks everyone for the replies. So it sounds like you guys agree that my LHBS guy really doesn’t understand BIAB very well and he is just trying to get me to do a traditional mash and sparge without the right equipment for that. Obviously he’s generally more experienced with brewing so I didn’t want to reject his advice out of hand, but I probably read 20 articles or books on BIAB and no one else does it the way he suggested, so I was leery of it.

Based on the suggestions, it sounds like my next purchase should be a grain mill. Even at the LHBS the rollers aren’t adjustable (or at least that’s what he said, although he may just not want customers fiddling with it). I guess I’ve read that some suggest putting it through the mill twice, so I may try that in the interim. My main guide has been John Palmer’s “How to Brew” and he says to use the same grind so I went with that, although the consensus advice from you guys and most of the articles I read is to grind it fine. So that’s what I’ll do going forward.

I am using a propane burner. I did stir and temp check every 15 minutes but I didn’t add heat even when I saw it dropping. Palmer writes that the temp is OK as long as it is above 140 so I let it go rather than deal with potential scorching issues, but the overall drop by the end seemed a lot worse than most of the YouTube brewers I’d viewed.

Palmer also says not to squeeze the bag but most people seem to disagree so I did purchase gloves and I did squeeze as much as I could.

As to Kevin’s suggestion above regarding data, what measurements should I be taking? Volumes of liquid at various stages? I didn’t see a lot of measurements in the profile that I understood.

I use a sleeping bag around my kettle during the mash. It helps with heat loss and if my garage is room temp, I’ll drop 2 degrees in an hour.

In addition to what others said, that may help. With my biab, a really fine crush, calculated ph in the normal range and your grain bill, I’d expect to yield 5.5 into the fermenter at 1.065 with 13 lbs of grain. It’s close to what I used to get batch sparged and a little less than what I would get fly sparging.

My first BIAB was surprisingly low until I started crushing the bejeebus out of the malt.

Best of luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Semper Sitientem]

+On all comments regarding a mill.

My LHBS has his set to .040 to prevent stuck sparges for his all-grain, non-BIAB customers. Yours is probably close to the same and just doesn’t want to custom mill, which is understandable. Mine is set to .025, which is the finest setting. There are other mills that can go even finer. Make sure you have an electric drill with a 1/2” chuck unless you’re looking to get an arm workout.

Regarding maintaining mash temp, I’m usually in the low 150’s, but a local craft brewer told me recently that he’s always in the high 140’s. I made a jacket with Reflectix following this link with three layers around and two in the top. It works very well.
http://fermware.com/reflectix-insulation-jacket-for-your-mash-tun/

[Shmello]

Regarding maintaining mash temp, I’m usually in the low 150’s, but a local craft brewer told me recently that he’s always in the high 140’s. I made a jacket with Reflectix following this link with three layers around and two in the top. It works very well.
http://fermware.com/reflectix-insulation-jacket-for-your-mash-tun/

Turns out that the unused sleeping bag I had intended to use is actually the “guest” sleeping bag and can’t risk beer spoilage, according to my wife. I ended up using a ski fleece on top and 3 ski pants draped over the edges, which obviously didn’t work very well.

The Reflectix jacket looks neat. I have the parts coming from Amazon in a few days.

[Semper Sitientem]

Regarding maintaining mash temp, I’m usually in the low 150’s, but a local craft brewer told me recently that he’s always in the high 140’s. I made a jacket with Reflectix following this link with three layers around and two in the top. It works very well.
http://fermware.com/reflectix-insulation-jacket-for-your-mash-tun/

Turns out that the unused sleeping bag I had intended to use is actually the “guest” sleeping bag and can’t risk beer spoilage, according to my wife. I ended up using a ski fleece on top and 3 ski pants draped over the edges, which obviously didn’t work very well.

The Reflectix jacket looks neat. I have the parts coming from Amazon in a few days.

Pro tip: Make sure you have a new blade on your utility knife. This stuff is strangely difficult to cut. I cut slots for the lid handle, kettle side handles and notches for the ball valve and bulkhead plug.

[DBhomebrew]

The LHBS guy isn't all too far off.

Mash. Pull bag, let hang, flame on, maybe a little squeeze. Lower into room temp water in a bucket. Open bag, mix thoroughly, close bag, pull, hang, maybe a little squeeze. Pour sparge into kettle.

I BIAB and dunk (batch) sparge to extend my brew length. Splitting the total water gives more room for grain and allows 4 gallons out of a 5gal kettle. 3.75G for the occasional ~1.095. As an extra bonus over no sparge, the sparge gains an extra 8% efficiency at 1.040.

If I had a bigger kettle, I'd skip it. It adds a half hour or so of time to the day.

I mill very fine with a cheap Corona style mill. Plenty of flour. Even without the efficiency bump from the sparge, my 1.040 beer is over 80%.

[Kevin]

As to Kevin’s suggestion above regarding data, what measurements should I be taking? Volumes of liquid at various stages? I didn’t see a lot of measurements in the profile that I understood.

Here is a basic equipment profile tutorial for Beersmith. A profile for BIAB is going to be different than what is described in the video but you will still want to measure volumes and losses... https://youtu.be/QmW7pwQP5mQ

Here is a tutorial for a BIAB mash profile... https://youtu.be/VKiEjhxo2oo

[Shmello]

Here’s a follow up report on my next batch.

Bottom line was that my efficiency was 75%. I made the two changes recommended, getting a grain mill and making a fine grind, and using an insulation jacket for temperature control. I can’t really say which contributed the most to the better performance.

With the Reflectix jacket the temp dropped only from 154 to 150 degrees during the hour mash.

Overall I’m very pleased that I am in the ballpark of executing a recipe correctly. The estimated OG was 1.074 and I ended up at 1.072. That seemed good for my second all-grain attempt.

Thanks again for the suggestions. You guys really helped me start to dial in my process.

[Kevin]

Here’s a follow up report on my next batch.

Bottom line was that my efficiency was 75%. I made the two changes recommended, getting a grain mill and making a fine grind, and using an insulation jacket for temperature control. I can’t really say which contributed the most to the better performance.

With the Reflectix jacket the temp dropped only from 154 to 150 degrees during the hour mash.

Overall I’m very pleased that I am in the ballpark of executing a recipe correctly. The estimated OG was 1.074 and I ended up at 1.072. That seemed good for my second all-grain attempt.

Thanks again for the suggestions. You guys really helped me start to dial in my process.

Take your Beersmith session data (you did record your session data didn't you?) and use that info to adjust your equipment profile. Using the updated profile on your next brew should give you even better results.

BTW, you are executing your recipe correctly. Its just that your results are not lining up with the Beersmith estimates which are just that... estimates based on the info you input into the program to that point. As you adjust the input the estimates will start to line up with your results.