Author Topic: From Worst To First!  (Read 903 times)

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2022, 02:41:14 pm »
When is the brewery opening to the public?

As soon as we learn how to brew some good beer!
From the sound of it, you’re already doing it. Keep it up!!!!

No, not even close. Got lucky a couple times. But a long ways to go to being consistent. That is my goal, consistency.
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.

Online denny

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2022, 02:42:25 pm »
When is the brewery opening to the public?

As soon as we learn how to brew some good beer!

and lose your mind
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2022, 04:54:19 pm »
When is the brewery opening to the public?

As soon as we learn how to brew some good beer!

and lose your mind

That was the first thing to go!
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.

Online fredthecat

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2022, 05:02:34 pm »
When is the brewery opening to the public?

As soon as we learn how to brew some good beer!
From the sound of it, you’re already doing it. Keep it up!!!!

No, not even close. Got lucky a couple times. But a long ways to go to being consistent. That is my goal, consistency.

you frequently state that you make perfect pilsners and lagers. you've stated that knowledgeable people describe them as "the best in the world" etc. imho a brewer can't simply "get lucky" at this level. if getting perfect water profiles to go with the style, that doesn't happen by chance, it's intentional and not something a beginner homebrewer generally does. the rest is a repeatable process - ie. grists, mash, boil, fermentation.

you made a 20 gallon batch of one recent beer. if you're brewing at this scale you could start blending, not to mention that is a humongous amount of beer on the homebrew scale.

how can you not have consistency yet?

i have a primitive setup, and if i wanted to recreate a beer that i made i could do so from the notes i keep on each beer re: water, minerals, grains, mash temp/time, boil and hop additions. yeast and fermentation temp/time.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2022, 06:59:38 pm »
When is the brewery opening to the public?

As soon as we learn how to brew some good beer!
From the sound of it, you’re already doing it. Keep it up!!!!

No, not even close. Got lucky a couple times. But a long ways to go to being consistent. That is my goal, consistency.

you frequently state that you make perfect pilsners and lagers. you've stated that knowledgeable people describe them as "the best in the world" etc. imho a brewer can't simply "get lucky" at this level. if getting perfect water profiles to go with the style, that doesn't happen by chance, it's intentional and not something a beginner homebrewer generally does. the rest is a repeatable process - ie. grists, mash, boil, fermentation.

you made a 20 gallon batch of one recent beer. if you're brewing at this scale you could start blending, not to mention that is a humongous amount of beer on the homebrew scale.

how can you not have consistency yet?

i have a primitive setup, and if i wanted to recreate a beer that i made i could do so from the notes i keep on each beer re: water, minerals, grains, mash temp/time, boil and hop additions. yeast and fermentation temp/time.

Full disclosure...if I ever stated that my beers are perfect, I was wrong. Yes, others have told me they were good. Some say very good. We got lucky being back-to-back (2021-2022) multiple 1st Place winners at the Bluebonnet Nationals.

Like all homebrewers, we make some beers that are good, some that are Ok, and a few that are mistakes. And that is what this thread is about.

A beer that was seriously flawed, and was able to be salvaged based on advice given to me right here on this forum. By the way, this was not my first example of a flawed beer.

If I could brew the exact same beer, day in and day out, with the exact same results, I would be satisfied.
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.

Offline Richard

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2022, 08:27:52 pm »
If I could brew the exact same beer, day in and day out, with the exact same results, I would be satisfied.

I would be bored. I like variety. I am always brewing new beers, only some of which I choose to brew again.
I know that isn't the path to achieve consistency, but that isn't my goal.
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Online fredthecat

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2022, 08:36:07 pm »

If I could brew the exact same beer, day in and day out, with the exact same results, I would be satisfied.

i think this could be pretty easily done. as i said above. take detailed notes. do the same ingredients, procedure hot and cold side, get a feel for the yeast. i believe you have said you are many generations down on a culture of diamond lager. start using the same processes, ie. collect yeast in the same manner, use the same size sample to inoculate new wort.

it's not going to be inbev consistency (as a theoretical example - i actually think megabrewers can have horrible consistency in product), but thats the path to reaching that goal.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2022, 06:10:26 am »

If I could brew the exact same beer, day in and day out, with the exact same results, I would be satisfied.

i think this could be pretty easily done. as i said above. take detailed notes. do the same ingredients, procedure hot and cold side, get a feel for the yeast. i believe you have said you are many generations down on a culture of diamond lager. start using the same processes, ie. collect yeast in the same manner, use the same size sample to inoculate new wort.

it's not going to be inbev consistency (as a theoretical example - i actually think megabrewers can have horrible consistency in product), but thats the path to reaching that goal.

My statement does not mean that I wish to brew a German Pils all the time. But it means that when a 5D is brewed, that it will taste exactly like the last 5D that was brewed. It’s a level of quality control that I strive for.

Yes, I keep notes on the beers. My recipe book dates back to 1990.

AB, Miller/Coors, Boston Beer Co., etc, have a good level of consistency in their product. Spaten, Hoffbrau, Paulaner are included. That is my goal.
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.

Online narvin

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2022, 06:57:47 am »

My statement does not mean that I wish to brew a German Pils all the time. But it means that when a 5D is brewed, that it will taste exactly like the last 5D that was brewed. It’s a level of quality control that I strive for.

Yes, I keep notes on the beers. My recipe book dates back to 1990.

On a homebrew scale,  my opinion is that it's harder than you think unless you are controlling things with automation, measuring DO, measuring pH, adjusting recipe and process based on malt lot analysis, doing yeast cell counts and checking for vitality, and taking other measures that are common in commercial brewing
 The ingredients we get, especially hops, also vary a lot more than what large brewers get unless you buy large quantities of the same crop and use them fast.

That being said, it's absolutely not out of reach to make homebrew without flaws for every batch.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2022, 08:10:16 am »

My statement does not mean that I wish to brew a German Pils all the time. But it means that when a 5D is brewed, that it will taste exactly like the last 5D that was brewed. It’s a level of quality control that I strive for.

Yes, I keep notes on the beers. My recipe book dates back to 1990.

On a homebrew scale,  my opinion is that it's harder than you think unless you are controlling things with automation, measuring DO, measuring pH, adjusting recipe and process based on malt lot analysis, doing yeast cell counts and checking for vitality, and taking other measures that are common in commercial brewing
 The ingredients we get, especially hops, also vary a lot more than what large brewers get unless you buy large quantities of the same crop and use them fast.

That being said, it's absolutely not out of reach to make homebrew without flaws for every batch.

And we know that flawed beer can be fixed! I wonder if this applies to people too?
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.

Online fredthecat

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2022, 10:17:17 am »

And we know that flawed beer can be fixed! I wonder if this applies to people too?

i seriously doubt that. as denny said, what you did was krausening (i believe so from skimming your OP). cant remember what the issue was with the beer, diacetyl right? giving it more time could have just as easily been a factor with this beer as well. that is one thing. there are a multitude of problems that are less likely to be "fixed" to varying degrees by adding active yeast, there are some that could.




Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2022, 10:51:47 am »
The biggest takeaway I’m getting here is that flawed people can possibly be fixed simply by adding more yeast.  :o
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Offline neuse

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2022, 12:11:06 pm »
So going back to the OP, I'm thinking another potential lesson from this experience (other than fixing a flawed beer) would be learning what went wrong in the first place, and how to avoid it in the future. Did you come away with any lessons for future brews?

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2022, 01:17:39 pm »
So going back to the OP, I'm thinking another potential lesson from this experience (other than fixing a flawed beer) would be learning what went wrong in the first place, and how to avoid it in the future. Did you come away with any lessons for future brews?

This beer was brewed exactly the same way that all of the past beers have been brewed. My procedure is very standard, with little variation from beer to beer.

At first, I thought it might be a yeast issue, having harvested this Diamond Lager so many times that we have lost count.

Also, my recipes are very standard. The one thing that was done with the 20 gallons of 5D (German Pils) that I have not done previously is a Diacetyl rest.
Not a hint of any off flavor at all. No Diacetyl. None.

So I might incorporate a D-Rest with all of my beers going forward.

But here is the question...exactly when do you do this? At what temperature? And, for how long? Do you take gravity readings at this time?

Like they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...or yeast, in this example.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 01:20:01 pm by Bel Air Brewing »
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Offline neuse

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Re: From Worst To First!
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2022, 01:48:26 pm »
Since I don't have refrigeration, I can't speak from experience. But White and Zainashef's Yeast book speaks about diacetyl rest. Near the end of fermentation hold at 65 - 68F for two days. The best time is when gravity is 2 - 5 gravity points from reaching FG. It also mentions an alternative method of raising the temperature to 68F for the last 1/3 of fermentation. The book is copyright 2010, so methods might have changed since. Anyway, food for thought.