Author Topic: Haze, Flakes and clumbs  (Read 1936 times)

Offline dunngood

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Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« on: September 22, 2010, 09:42:38 AM »
I am having a problem with specks or clumps floating in my beers.Sometimes it looks like a shaken snowdoom. When I bottle the beer is very clear but in about two weeks these specks appear.

It happens with all different styles and ingredients. Sometimes the clumps are even bigger but never seem to settle out.The rest of the beer is very clear.

Do you have any ideas?



Offline bluesman

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 10:25:53 AM »
Can you post a photo of the beer in a pint glass showing the flakes?

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Offline euge

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 10:51:24 AM »
How does it taste? Sounds like it's infected. Maybe.
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Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 12:10:33 PM »
I have a photo but don't know how to attach it. The beer tastes great. I just took 1st. place at the New York State fair with some of the bottles that were clear. I see on the wyeast site they say to mix castic in a sample if it clears it might be protiens, if not it can be yeast. Most troublesome.Just can't nail this one down.

Offline drtanglebones

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 12:54:11 PM »
Are you using a secondary fermenter?  Many people swear you don't need them, but several of my beers refuse to clarify correctly until they spend a few weeks in the secondary.  Also need more info on your process (all grain, extract with grains...) as this will have something to do with haze formation.

Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 01:16:13 PM »
All grain, batch sparge. I have tried a secondary and cold crashing with gelatin. I use Whirrfloc.
I have a good IC chiller and get to pitching temps in 20 mins or less.

I believe my starter sizes and fermentation temps are good.
I really watch my cleaning and use Star San.
I have used different water with no luck.

The beer is very clear when bottled. These flakes or clumps form in the bottle latter on.

Offline stlaleman

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 01:23:04 PM »
Are you bottle conditioning? If so it might be your pour, as with bottle conditioning, a yeast/sediment layer always forms. If its proteins, using Irish Moss during the bottling would help.

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 01:49:03 PM »
using Irish Moss during the bottling would help.
Boil, I'm sure he meant to say irish moss during the boil.  Don't use it when bottling :)
Tom Schmidlin

Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 02:30:22 PM »
Yes, all the beers are bottle conditioned. I have been doing that for many years with no problem till now. This is what wyeast said.
: Many times protein haze may be mistaken for non-flocculating yeast. First confirm that it is yeast in suspension and not protein by performing a Haze Test. Haze Determination Test Decant 50 ml of hazy beer into a clear sample container. Add 2ml. caustic (40-50%). Shake. If beer turns clear, the problem is protein in suspension. If beer remains cloudy, yeast is still in suspension. Flocculation and clarification are very complex. Many times clarification problems have nothing to do with the yeast, but instead with the environment that the yeast is in. Yeast will flocculate and sediment given time unless something inhibits this. A combination of environmental factors including pH, alcohol content, temperature, sugar concentration, and ion content can negatively affect flocculation and sedimentation. Environmental conditions will affect the flocculation abruptly, showing large differences in subsequent fermentations. It is also possible for yeast to mutate to a less flocculent form. This is usually a very gradual process, over the course of many generations. Every time a brewer harvests their yeast, they have the opportunity to select for a slightly different population. Over a number of generations, the population can show a change in flocculation and thus probably population. It is important for the brewer to try to harvest yeast from the same area in the fermenter to minimize possible changes.   I will try this soon. Maybe that will help.  Thanks

Offline a10t2

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 02:56:43 PM »
Are you using carb drops/tabs? I can't remember which, but one of the two has a reputation for leaving floaters.
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Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 04:04:30 PM »
No I batch prime with corn sugar.

Offline euge

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 04:12:19 PM »
Which yeast strain(s) are you using? Is it happening with different strains?
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

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Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 03:19:49 AM »
This has happened with many different yeasts. Lager or Ale. A friend has some castic to use in the test I sent on this post. I will post the results.

Offline dannyjed

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 05:05:02 PM »
This same thing happened to my buddy with a batch of beer.  We didn't know what it was and the beer did not taste infected :-\ Let us know what you find out.
Dan Chisholm

Offline dunngood

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Re: Haze, Flakes and clumbs
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 06:33:06 AM »
Well I did the haze test suggested by Wyeast and it seems my problem is protein.
I used a White Labs tube full of the problem beer and added the caustic. Any haze cleared and so did the specks.
I use an IM chiller. In the winter I run a garden hose through the snow then through the chiller. I can get the wort down to 70F in 15 to 20 mins.

I have tried cold crashing and gelatin but it did not seem to work with this problem.

I will send out a sample to Wards for an water test. .