Author Topic: Too much trub  (Read 488 times)

Offline Ed Meyer

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Too much trub
« on: June 20, 2022, 02:07:00 pm »
I have been whole grain brewing for about 4 months.  Mostly Ales are good, however, my Pilsners when put into brewing kettle there is a very lot of trub, looking a lot like curdled stuff.    Any ideas on how to cure this.  I am using a fine mesh bag for the pellet hops when boilding.
Ed Meyer

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2022, 02:29:58 pm »
Using kettle finings and whirlpool will help reduce trüb but studies have shown you want to carry a little over to the fermenter. I try to transfer clear beer this way.

Some taste tests show people prefer beer fermented on the trüb so some folks here don’t worry about it at all and just transfer with the trüb.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 03:02:01 pm »
This is purely anecdotal, and a single data point.
We leave ALL of the trub behind in the boil kettle. By employing multiple screens and whole leaf hops, it gets filtered out. Our final catch-all filter is a fine mesh nylon bag, placed in line with the wort as it drains from the boil kettle.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 07:19:07 pm »
If your pH is in the correct range you will see a lot more hot break and trub with pilsner malt. It's nothing to worry about. Some choose to ferment on the trub others choose to remove it. I have gone so far as to let a beer sit overnight and rack off the trub the next morning. But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 05:14:25 am »
But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Have there been direct A-B comparisons of trub beer vs non trub beer?
We strive to remove every last bit of trub. This aids in us getting a hyper clean yeast harvest.
And our experience is the total lack of trub has not had any negative affect on our beers. I could take this one step further and state that in our case, having beer free of trub has improved our beer.

Anecdotal, single data point...over the prior 3 years of brewing.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2022, 05:36:46 am »
Everything I have read says you want just a little bit of trub for yeast health. At Yellowhammer I used to run a centrifuge. ON the hot side I practiced running the hot wort out of the kettle which would separate the hot break, then it would run back into the chiller and form the cold break. Supposedly this is thew amount of trub that "you want" according to my friend who studied brewing in Germany. But, to be honest, it was such a PITA that I went back to just skipping the centrifuge and fermenting on the trub. I can't say I ever noticed any difference.

If you like the results you get from removing all the trub, you should keep doing that. I just can't say I have ever noticed much difference in the final quality of the beer either way. Course, I never sampled them side by side.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 05:38:31 am by majorvices »

Offline BrewBama

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Too much trub
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2022, 06:52:57 am »
But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Have there been direct A-B comparisons of trub beer vs non trub beer?


Yes. More than once with varying results.

Examples: ABSC examples

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« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 07:05:00 am by BrewBama »

Offline majorvices

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2022, 06:57:25 am »
But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Have there been direct A-B comparisons of trub beer vs non trub beer?


Yes

But wether to leave it in or not still depends on who you talk to. LoDo guys are anti-trub, no?

One thing to consider is if you are brewing with large quantities of pilsner malt is that you will get more hot break, and so more trub, with pilsner malt because it has slightly more protein than most other two-row varieties. If you hit your pH you should expect to see a lot of trub. This is what you want. If you don't want it leave it behind.

I whirlpool after brewing and leave most of the trub (in the form of hot break) and hops behind. I don't bother dumping trub (cold break) off the cone.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 06:59:48 am by majorvices »

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 07:09:25 am »
But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Have there been direct A-B comparisons of trub beer vs non trub beer?


Yes

But wether to leave it in or not still depends on who you talk to. LoDo guys are anti-trub, no?

One thing to consider is if you are brewing with large quantities of pilsner malt is that you will get more hot break, and so more trub, with pilsner malt because it has slightly more protein than most other two-row varieties. If you hit your pH you should expect to see a lot of trub. This is what you want. If you don't want it leave it behind.

I whirlpool after brewing and leave most of the trub (in the form of hot break) and hops behind. I don't bother dumping trub (cold break) off the cone.

During chilling, our wort develops a huge volume of cold break. The cold break, hot break, and trub is mud like in viscosity, being trapped in the filtering screens and whole cone hops during the run off into the ferment vessel. A dirty greenish gray color. No...I don't want this in my beer! Mainly because it will end up in the yeast, which we always harvest.

99% of our beers are Pilsners, or light lagers. Lots of Pils malt!

Trub is defined as a waste product of brewing.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 07:12:50 am by Bel Air Brewing »
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Offline pv

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 07:17:56 am »
I had stressed over trub in the past, now after nearly 80 brews, I don't.  I don't try to get trub in the fermenter, but when I do, it is not all of it and I have never noticed a negative effect to the beer that I could attribute to too much trub.  So many other things to worry about that this just isn't on my radar.  I overbuild starters for harvesting, so Bel Air's harvesting issue is not a concern of mine.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2022, 08:13:25 am »
I've always poured through a strainer which catches the hops and acts like a coarse filter for some of the break material. I get some trub through but the only time it is an issue is with one gallon batches where I didn't use a lot of hops so there was no filtration. Then there's not a lot of headspace in a 4l jug but a drop of fermcap solves that problem. I don't know whether trub is good or bad on my beer but I've always done it this way and I'm happy with my beers.
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Offline denny

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2022, 08:17:02 am »
But as BrewBama says, evidence has shown that some trub is good for fermentation and beer flavor.

Have there been direct A-B comparisons of trub beer vs non trub beer?
We strive to remove every last bit of trub. This aids in us getting a hyper clean yeast harvest.
And our experience is the total lack of trub has not had any negative affect on our beers. I could take this one step further and state that in our case, having beer free of trub has improved our beer.

Anecdotal, single data point...over the prior 3 years of brewing.

Yes, there have been direct comparisons at the homebrew level, going back almost 25 years. Unfortunately them website that had the data is long gone, but I recall the test well.  After reading the results that Joaquin Rudd (IIRC) posted I tried it myself as a test a few times.  The beer with trub may have been better, but it was certainly no worse. Since that time I no longer worry about trub.  I suggest you try it yourself and make your own decision as I did.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2022, 08:34:14 am »
I don't sweat it and I harvest and re-pitch on average about 5-7 batches of yeast.  I let the break settle out in the boil kettle during chilling and when it is cold enough and clear enough, I start my run off to the fermenter.  The first bit is cloudy with trub, but soon clears down through to the very last, at which point I stop the run off and leave a quart or so behind with the bulk of the trub.  I use Whirlfloc and Brewtan B toward the end of the boil and find that my light lagers clear very well in the fermenter (pressurized ferment most of the time) - I spund or rack to a purged keg under CO2 using a Clear Draught floating dip tube in the fermenter.  This process avoids pickup of most of the yeast/trub from the fermenter (at least in my experience).  By the time my beer is fully carbonated, it is typically very clear.  When I clean a keg that has kicked, there is typically a very small and fine streak of sediment on the bottom of the keg, rarely enough to cover the bottom.

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Offline MNWayne

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2022, 09:36:02 am »
Trub vs no-trub, it's so black and white. I strive for grey. I put in just a little effort, remove most, and don't worry about the rest.
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Too much trub
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 11:16:27 am »
Beer with trub, or without trub, may or may not be different.

I do not want any residual trub in our beer. As our yeast is harvested, we only want the cleanest, trub free yeast possible.

Thus we go to great lengths to keep the beer we brew free of any brewing waste byproducts.
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