Author Topic: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package  (Read 489 times)

Offline neuse

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Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« on: September 10, 2022, 02:54:03 pm »

This post is continued from a previous one, but since the subject has changed, I started a new thread. I made an order from Williams Brewing on 5-29-22 - it arrived a few days later. It included three pouches of LME. Two had no problems, but one, the Nut Brown extract, started fermenting in the sealed package - I found it swollen on 8-22-22. I emailed Williams and got a refund for the bad extract. Then I asked about reordering, since I didn’t want another contamination issue. I got this response:

“I spoke to Bill and we do not know when or if we might get more Nut Brown.  We do have quite a bit until we run out.  Not all of it has been bagged.  We've only had a couple that  started to ferment in the bag.  The other sizes seem to be fine.  We do believe it may have had to do with the hot weather.  It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival.”

It seems to me they are not addressing the primary problem, which is contaminated extract, and that putting a sticker on the bags is not a real solution. I’d like to see what others think about it. Opinions?

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2022, 04:00:10 pm »
I really like Williams Brewing.

I think they are assuming there is some wild yeast in the extract or bag. Keeping cold would limit growth. When boiled before fermentation that yeast would die.

Offline denny

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2022, 04:18:46 pm »
Is it possible it's diastatic extract?
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Offline brewthru

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2022, 05:41:27 pm »
I've dealt with Williams Brewing many times over the years. Contact them and explain the problem. I'm sure they will remediate to the customer's satisfaction.

Offline Bob357

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2022, 07:42:50 pm »
I've dealt with William's for several years and can tell you that they carry quality products and provide excellent customer service, as you experienced with the quick refund. You were refunded for the extract, so I really see no problem. They've had very few problems with the product, so I wouldn't expect them to dump a large amount of extract and order another drum so they can ship you another bag. A 55-gallon drum of LME isn't cheap. Keep in mind that businesses are still recovering from the BS that they were subjected to during COVID and give them a little slack. We're lucky a quality shop like William's still has their doors open.
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Offline mainebrewer

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2022, 04:36:33 am »
Why did you keep a bag of LME around for 3 months before deciding to brew with it?
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Online BrewBama

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2022, 05:31:30 am »
I probably would have just brewed with the swollen bag knowing that whatever caused the swelling was about to add to my hot break.

Offline neuse

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2022, 09:09:05 am »
Thanks very much for all the comments. To answer some of the questions:
•   I can’t get their “Ingredient Questions” page to work, but I’ve never seen anything indicating it would be diastatic extract. I really don’t know anything about diastatic extract.
•   I explained the problem to Williams, and I’m completely satisfied with the response on my particular issue.
•   There were three bags of extract on the order. This would have been the third brew. And I did have some things going on that kept me from brewing as much as usual. Hence, the three-month delay in brewing.

My concern is that there seems to be a sanitation problem. Their wording - “It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival” - leads me to believe that putting a sticker on the bag is their long-term solution. In general, malt extract doesn’t need refrigeration unless the user is trying to minimize oxidation and darkening. I buy three at a time and don’t have room in the fridge for 24 pounds of malt extract. I’m hoping they will look into this and solve the sanitation problem.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2022, 10:29:26 am »
Thanks very much for all the comments. To answer some of the questions:
•   I can’t get their “Ingredient Questions” page to work, but I’ve never seen anything indicating it would be diastatic extract. I really don’t know anything about diastatic extract.
•   I explained the problem to Williams, and I’m completely satisfied with the response on my particular issue.
•   There were three bags of extract on the order. This would have been the third brew. And I did have some things going on that kept me from brewing as much as usual. Hence, the three-month delay in brewing.

My concern is that there seems to be a sanitation problem. Their wording - “It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival” - leads me to believe that putting a sticker on the bag is their long-term solution. In general, malt extract doesn’t need refrigeration unless the user is trying to minimize oxidation and darkening. I buy three at a time and don’t have room in the fridge for 24 pounds of malt extract. I’m hoping they will look into this and solve the sanitation problem.
I’m sure they don’t have a clean room environment for filling bags from the drum. Probably all homebrew shops that fill smaller portions from a larger batch have this issue.

Offline neuse

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2022, 12:37:04 pm »
Thanks very much for all the comments. To answer some of the questions:
•   I can’t get their “Ingredient Questions” page to work, but I’ve never seen anything indicating it would be diastatic extract. I really don’t know anything about diastatic extract.
•   I explained the problem to Williams, and I’m completely satisfied with the response on my particular issue.
•   There were three bags of extract on the order. This would have been the third brew. And I did have some things going on that kept me from brewing as much as usual. Hence, the three-month delay in brewing.

My concern is that there seems to be a sanitation problem. Their wording - “It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival” - leads me to believe that putting a sticker on the bag is their long-term solution. In general, malt extract doesn’t need refrigeration unless the user is trying to minimize oxidation and darkening. I buy three at a time and don’t have room in the fridge for 24 pounds of malt extract. I’m hoping they will look into this and solve the sanitation problem.
I’m sure they don’t have a clean room environment for filling bags from the drum. Probably all homebrew shops that fill smaller portions from a larger batch have this issue.
A very good point. I hadn't thought about Williams being on a small scale, but maybe they are. It is their own brand of extract - it is made by an outside company (as per an email from them a few years ago). I don't know if the batch is held by Williams or by the other company while waiting to be bagged, but I'd guess it is held by Williams. If it is as you suggest, it might not be wise to buy three at a time. Better to use it fairly soon, or refrigerate it. As I mentioned, I really can't refrigerate three bags )without divorce becoming a possibility).

Offline jeffy

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Re: Williams Brewing - Extract Fermenting in the Package
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2022, 12:46:00 pm »
Thanks very much for all the comments. To answer some of the questions:
•   I can’t get their “Ingredient Questions” page to work, but I’ve never seen anything indicating it would be diastatic extract. I really don’t know anything about diastatic extract.
•   I explained the problem to Williams, and I’m completely satisfied with the response on my particular issue.
•   There were three bags of extract on the order. This would have been the third brew. And I did have some things going on that kept me from brewing as much as usual. Hence, the three-month delay in brewing.

My concern is that there seems to be a sanitation problem. Their wording - “It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival” - leads me to believe that putting a sticker on the bag is their long-term solution. In general, malt extract doesn’t need refrigeration unless the user is trying to minimize oxidation and darkening. I buy three at a time and don’t have room in the fridge for 24 pounds of malt extract. I’m hoping they will look into this and solve the sanitation problem.
I’m sure they don’t have a clean room environment for filling bags from the drum. Probably all homebrew shops that fill smaller portions from a larger batch have this issue.
A very good point. I hadn't thought about Williams being on a small scale, but maybe they are. It is their own brand of extract - it is made by an outside company (as per an email from them a few years ago). I don't know if the batch is held by Williams or by the other company while waiting to be bagged, but I'd guess it is held by Williams. If it is as you suggest, it might not be wise to buy three at a time. Better to use it fairly soon, or refrigerate it. As I mentioned, I really can't refrigerate three bags )without divorce becoming a possibility).
Also, if I were selling LME I would assume the buyer would be boiling it.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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