Author Topic: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?  (Read 1056 times)

Offline Steve

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What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« on: September 23, 2010, 09:52:25 AM »
In Oct. 2010's BYO, Horst Dornbusch wrote the article about Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier "Liquid Bacon."  He wrote that Schlenkerla makes their rauchbier with 100% of their proprietary rauchmaltz.  The classic rauchbier recipe included in the article uses 28% rauchmaltz, 59% munich, 8% Caramunich, 2.5% Carafa Spec. 1 and 2.5% acidulated malts; utilizing a step mash of 140ºF, 147, 152 and mash out at 172.     

Since Weyerman and Schlenkerla are both in Bamberg, is it likely that they use the same malt for smoking? What might that malt be?
Steve
 
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 10:06:50 AM »
The rauch malt has a reported color of 1.7-2.4 L.  I think pils malt would be the only malt light enough to give you that color.

I don't know for sure what malt Schlenkerla uses to make their smoked malt, but I would bet they use pils malt too.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 11:04:44 AM »
Weyermann probably uses a Munich or Pils malt.  Their rauchmalz are said to be smokier than Schlenkerla's, so Schlenkerla can use 100%, and if you have fresh Weyermanns, 30-40% would be more like it.  Schlenkerla malts their own grain, as does Spezial.  What the variety is, I do not know.  

Freshness is critical in the rauchmalz that we get.  I became frustrated with the intensity of what I was able to get - not criticizing the LHBS, more the time in transit from Bamberg on the ship, customs, and warehousing.  Smoking Weyeramnn munich malt over beechwood gives good results, if you want to do the work.

Edit - Tom is right, with that color rating for the Weyermanns, it must be something like a pils.  But you need to know that they are also drying/kilning with the wood fires after the germination stage of the malting.  Got to see the Spezial brewery, and Herr Merz stated that they only smoke the malt in the winter, as the low relative humidity helps the drying process.  The process was said to take 36 hours, and he said no one elso knows the smoking temperature.  "My secret!" was how he put it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 11:14:35 AM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 11:11:59 AM »
Weyermann probably uses a Munich or Pils malt.
I'm not aware of any Munich malt that is is in the stated L range for rauchmalt.

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=16&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 11:19:48 AM »
I was editing my post.  You are correct. 

Don't know about Weyermanns, but the smoking is part of the drying and kilning at Spezial.  Remember that it is often written that this was the way malt was dried before the industrial revolution.

This also raises the question, if Schlenkerla uses 100% smoked malts, how do they get the dark color of the beer in the glass in front of me at Schlenkerla, in my picture?  Either they use some color malts, or they kiln to a darker color.  All of this is just another reason to go back to Bamberg.

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 11:42:46 AM »
Schlenkerla malts their own grain, as does Spezial.  What the variety is, I do not know.   
I spaced that they malted their own barley, dur.   :-[

This also raises the question, if Schlenkerla uses 100% smoked malts, how do they get the dark color of the beer in the glass in front of me at Schlenkerla, in my picture?  Either they use some color malts, or they kiln to a darker color.
Good point, they must kiln it to a darker color or at least some of it.  I'll take them at their word that they use 100% smoked malt.

All of this is just another reason to go back to Bamberg.
Seriously, I can't wait to go back.  I was there in December - it's bock season. :)  Plus all of the Christmas markets in the towns, street vendors with mulled wine and beer and food, really a great time of year to go.  They tapped the Oak Smoked at Schlenkerla three days after I left.  :'(
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 11:50:38 AM »
December in Franconia would be wonderful.  The Christmas markets are a favorite of ours.

We have been to Bamberg 3 times, and it is a place you always want to go back to.
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Offline Steve

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »
This also raises the question, if Schlenkerla uses 100% smoked malts, how do they get the dark color of the beer in the glass in front of me at Schlenkerla, in my picture?  Either they use some color malts, or they kiln to a darker color.  All of this is just another reason to go back to Bamberg.

After your comments and additional thinking... they may malt the barley that you all mention, kiln them to the degree to produce the proprietary characteristics and then smoke them together, producing 100% rauchmaltz.  I'm running out later to get another bottle Schlenkerla to look at the color since I can't get there in person right now.
Steve
 
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 12:36:12 PM »
After your comments and additional thinking... they may malt the barley that you all mention, kiln them to the degree to produce the proprietary characteristics and then smoke them together, producing 100% rauchmaltz.  I'm running out later to get another bottle Schlenkerla to look at the color since I can't get there in person right now.
According to Schlenkerla, they kiln the malt over a beechwood fire.  If you can find it, I highly recommend the UrBock.  I think it's much better than the Maerzen, which is saying a lot. :)
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 01:56:00 PM »
According to Schlenkerla, they kiln the malt over a beechwood fire.  If you can find it, I highly recommend the UrBock.  I think it's much better than the Maerzen, which is saying a lot. :)

We all have our own taste.  I like the Schlenkerla Maerzen best.

My wife likes the Spezial Maerzen best, and that one is not as smokey, but a fine beer.

Edit - if you walk up the hill towards the Wilde Rose Biergarten, you pass the Heller-Trum brewery (Schlenkerla).  Stacks of split beechwood are stacked outside.  The wood is cut to about 1 meter in length.  It is said to be aged for 3 years to get the moisture down. 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 02:02:28 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline chaz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 02:09:20 PM »
On the topic of rauchmalt... has anyone used the stuff Best Malz makes? How does it compare to Weyermann's?

Offline Steve

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 03:06:17 PM »
I've had the Urbock and will pick up the Marzen when I find it.

To all of you who have been to Schlenkerla, how is the fresh taste of either the Marzen or the Urbock compared to the bottled taste?
Steve
 
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 04:19:34 PM »
By the time the bottles get here they have lost some of the fresh taste.  If they start to get a little "liquid smoke" flavor,they are off.  Herr Merz said he did not really like to ship to the US, but did to satisfy his deal with the Shelton Brothers (as he pointed to a pallett of shrink wraped kegs, minikegs and bottles).  He stated that after 6 months the beer really goes down hill as the phenolics change.  If most of that time is in shipping and handling, you can see why he was concerned.  With that said, I have had beers from Bamberg in multitaps like the Maproom in Chicago that were in great shape.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 06:05:53 AM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 10:37:20 PM »
Yes, definitely better fresh at the source.  But when fresh still really nice here, I'm glad they ship to the US. :)
Tom Schmidlin

Offline johnf

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Re: What malt does Weyerman uses in making their rauchmaltz?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2010, 06:53:25 AM »
The brauerei heller malt is probably a lot like a light munich based on the beers made with it.

Weyermann's is pale/pilsner.

In my experience you can't make a beer as smoky as heller's with Weyermann malt. I've bought it from the distributor and used it straight out of the bag at 90% + and its not there.

I would love to be able to buy something that was more like vienna or munich than Weyermann and significantly smokier. I am also interested in reports on Best. A local guy has a bag of it but hasn't used it yet.