Author Topic: Who does late mash?  (Read 1833 times)

Offline brushvalleybrewer

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Centre Hall, PA
    • View Profile
    • Brush Valley Brewer
Who does late mash?
« on: September 23, 2010, 05:42:47 PM »
I had never heard of late mash additions of specialty grains before and now I’ve seen it twice today.

How common is this, what is the benefit, and is there a trick to it?
In a humble log cabin off an unregarded back road, somewhere, deep in the heart of Pennsylvania’s hill country, we find our intrepid hero — the Brush Valley Brewer.

Online hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6030
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 06:03:25 PM »
I do this often for beers with a large portion of dark malts.  I cold steep the dark malts, and then add them 5-10 minutes before the vorlauf.  You get much of the color and flavor, but may want to up the amount by half or even double.  The advantage is that you don't get the burnt/acrid taste that you can get if you mash the whole time.  My wife likes beers that don't taste like an ashtray, so that is the way we do it.

This would also work with cara/crystal malts, since not much happens in the mash with these.  It would free up some space if you were doing a really big beer.  Mash the base malts, steep the crystal, and add the crystal when you are vorlaufing if you have room, or once there is room in the mash tun as you sparge.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline wingnut

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • Plainwell MI
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 06:13:33 PM »
I have not seen the other posts you speak of..., but I have done than for color additions a few times.  

However, my process is to grind up my dark grain, when I do not want a lot of flavor from it... just color... into more of a powder and then sprinkle it on top of the mash before sparging.  That way there is less extraction of the flavor.   I used this a lot with chocolate and Carafa Special (huskless Carafa).   Useing the Carafa Special helps a lot to reduce some of the flavors I don't want, but provide the color and some roastyness as well.

More or less the theory is if you soak the burnt husks of the dark grains for a long period of time, the more tannins from the husks are released into the mash.  For some beers that is a good thing... in others it is less so.
-- Wingnut - Cheers!

Offline dhacker

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 06:43:25 PM »
I've done what Jeff has done with good results. It really comes down to the matter of pH. You can mash the dark grains in there for the full time, but the addition of gypsum or other pH lowering compound is almost imperative to keep the "ashtray" out of the flavor profile.   ;) 

By doing the dark grains late, it minimizes the chance of the acrid flavors while still giving the character and color of the dark malts.
Just brew it...

Offline thcipriani

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 08:48:23 PM »
In the current issue of Zymurgy (September/October 2010) Drew Beechum wrote and article entitled "More Beer From Your Brew Day" which mentioned the late addition of specialty grains to your mash tun as a method of obtaining two beers from two separate runnings of your mash tun - a pseudo parti-gyle.
Quote
Instead of using the blended runnings, adding more grain can bump the second beer's character. "Capping" [sic] the mash entails a small addition (0.5-2 lbs) of crushed malt added and soaked for a few minutes before the sparge is resumed. Common additions include color malts alike crystals and roasts to boost SRM and malt perception.
- Drew Beechum, "More Beer From Your Brew Day"

Also, in 1999 George Fix on HBD was quoted talking about the late addition of the liquid from separately cold-steeped specialty malts to the end of the boil. He is quoted as having said this method was designed to, "maximize the extraction of  desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of  undesirable ones":

http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/brewing/index.html

I hate it when I get logged out after typing a post and have to re-type it. It's bologna - BOLOGNA!
Tyler Cipriani
Longmont, CO

Offline skyler

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 649
    • View Profile
    • Brewing After Law School
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 02:28:54 AM »
I've done what Jeff has done with good results. It really comes down to the matter of pH. You can mash the dark grains in there for the full time, but the addition of gypsum or other pH lowering compound is almost imperative to keep the "ashtray" out of the flavor profile.   ;) 

By doing the dark grains late, it minimizes the chance of the acrid flavors while still giving the character and color of the dark malts.

Don't you mean a pH raising compound like chalk? Dark grains are acidic, and I thought the acidity was what extracted tannins from the husk.

Offline brushvalleybrewer

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Centre Hall, PA
    • View Profile
    • Brush Valley Brewer
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 03:58:01 AM »
Great feedback guys. Thanks. I had no idea folks were doing this.

I've done what Jeff has done with good results. It really comes down to the matter of pH. You can mash the dark grains in there for the full time, but the addition of gypsum or other pH lowering compound is almost imperative to keep the "ashtray" out of the flavor profile.   ;) 

By doing the dark grains late, it minimizes the chance of the acrid flavors while still giving the character and color of the dark malts.

Don't you mean a pH raising compound like chalk? Dark grains are acidic, and I thought the acidity was what extracted tannins from the husk.

Actually, that was the context where I originally read about this topic. Some people’s mash was getting too low pH --- too acidic --- with the addition of dark grains for a stout. Rather than adding anything, the suggestion was to just mash the base malt and steep the specialty grains separately, or add them to the end of the mash. Fascinating!  :)
In a humble log cabin off an unregarded back road, somewhere, deep in the heart of Pennsylvania’s hill country, we find our intrepid hero — the Brush Valley Brewer.

Offline dhacker

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 04:43:56 AM »
I've done what Jeff has done with good results. It really comes down to the matter of pH. You can mash the dark grains in there for the full time, but the addition of gypsum or other pH lowering compound is almost imperative to keep the "ashtray" out of the flavor profile.   ;) 

By doing the dark grains late, it minimizes the chance of the acrid flavors while still giving the character and color of the dark malts.

Don't you mean a pH raising compound like chalk? Dark grains are acidic, and I thought the acidity was what extracted tannins from the husk.

Yes indeed that's what I meant!  :-[  Getting old sucks . . and posting after drinking doesn't help!
Just brew it...

Online hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6030
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 06:02:26 AM »
You can also do some searching of the web if you want to find out some more.

I remember that Mary Ann Gruber of Briess was the first to talk of it.  Here it is covered by the late George Fix.
http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/brewing/index.html
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline bendbrew

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 06:17:11 AM »
Brushvalley-

Following up on the thread I started about water additions for an Oatmeal Stout-I contacted a local brewer here in Bend (Silver Moon Brewing).  In addition to the recommended water additions he also suggested adding the dark malts to the last 15 mins of the mash.

the quote:  "You can add your dark grain at 45 minutes into a 60 minute mash to smooth the harsh dark malt flavors."


Offline blatz

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2620
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Who does late mash?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 06:20:18 AM »
what hopfeundmalz said.

I especially do this for beers where I am using carafa spezial and only want color contribution.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281