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Author Topic: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated  (Read 1953 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2023, 08:25:45 am »
Bottled over the weekend.  1728 took this Imperial Stout from 1.114 ---> 1.027.  That's 76% attenuation and 11.4 ABV, which is a bit more than I expected, but not much more.  Temp never got above 68°.  Sample taste was promising enough, though admittedly a bit green.  Hopefully I can get a fair bit of hardy yeast to give me enough carbonation.  I'll check back next Christmas.   :)

I have run 1728 at 55 F with similar results. Amazing yeast.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Online Megary

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2023, 07:43:52 am »
Hopefully I can get a fair bit of hardy yeast to give me enough carbonation.  I'll check back next Christmas.   :)

Well, I didn't wait until Christmas.  Instead, my son and I decided to pop a couple yesterday to toast his birthday.

But "pop" they did not.   :(

4 months after packaging, this beer is essentially as flat as the day it went into the bottle.  Hmm. 
Beer was brewed on 12/31/22 and fermented from 1.114 --->1.027.
Beer was packaged on 1/21/23 after 3 weeks in primary.
 - 22oz bottles were primed with 1.5 Cooper's carbonation drops each.
 - 1tsp Vanilla extract was added to each bottle.
 - Capped as usual with O2 scavenging caps.
 - Set in basement closet at 67°
On 2/5, I waxed the caps of all 11 bottles, mostly for aesthetics but also for a little more O2 protection.

So...
1. What went wrong?  For the record, the flat beer tastes very good.  We both thought that there is a great beer here, but for the carbonation.  As for the amount and usage of the carb drops, all I can say is that I've had great success using these in my yearly Barleywine (12oz bottles, 1 drop each, those).  No issues.  Were 1.5 drops not enough for 22oz bombers?  Maybe.  And I can understand if the bottles were UNDER-carbonated.  But these are not carbed at all.  Not even the slightest "pfft" from the caps upon opening.  I can't rule out poor packaging, though this is the first time I have had an issue with bottles not carbonating.  Did the dip in hot wax mess with the cap's seal?  I can't buy that either, mainly because the beer has no stale off-flavors and the caps appeared to be sealed correctly.  My guess is that the yeast, after 3 weeks in primary, was simply tapped out.  I can point a finger at the storage temp of 67° and say that wasn't warm enough either...but again...nothing?

2.  More importantly, what do I do with the remaining 9 bottles, all apparently flat yet promising Imperial Stout? 
Drop back 10 yards and punt?   ;D  Flush 'em?.  (Seems too early for that)
Do I give these bottles the "shake and bake" treatment, turning them upside down a few times and getting them into the mid-lower 70's? 
Do I open every waxed cap, add a bit of dry yeast and re-cap?
Do I just pour all the bottles into a keg and force carb?
Something else?
Thinking them through, all options seem to have clear drawbacks.  But I've got nothing to lose.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 08:09:24 am by Megary »

Offline ScallyWag

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2023, 09:23:41 am »
I had a batch of beer that was not carbonated (or seriously under-carbonated).  I wondered if perhaps I did not have the caps on tight enough, since there was a bottle or two in that batch that was carbonated perfectly. 

For the non-carbonated ones, I added a teensy bit more sugar to each, and a teensy bit of dry yeast - I think Nottingham.  Seriously, only about 1/8 of a teaspoon, probably less.  (I think the original yeast was a lager, but I can't remember.) 

Brought them upstairs to 72 degrees for a week, then refrigerated one of them for a couple of days and tried it, it was carbed nicely and tasted great.

Granted, you'll get oxygen ingress with that (I'm sure I did) but probably not enough to ruin them.

I don't have kegs or any way to force carbonate, so that was my only option.  Maybe you can go another route, I can't say if that would work better.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2023, 12:43:18 pm »
I would add a sugar and Cask Conditioning yeast to each bottle and recap them.  I had a very big barley wine that aged nicely, but didn't have any carb (flat as a pancake - presumably because the fermentation yeast just petered out).  I went the sugar and dry yeast route on a bottle by bottle basis and they carbed up nicely in a couple weeks.  I have one or two of those bottles left from that batch and will enjoy them on a special occasion.

I think that pouring back into a keg for forced carbonation is asking for more trouble (from an oxidation and contamination risk), as I see it, but it will get carbonated taking that route.

Best of luck and I hope you get a good result regardless of what you do.
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Online Megary

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2023, 08:08:23 am »
I would add a sugar and Cask Conditioning yeast to each bottle and recap them. I had a very big barley wine that aged nicely, but didn't have any carb (flat as a pancake - presumably because the fermentation yeast just petered out).  I went the sugar and dry yeast route on a bottle by bottle basis and they carbed up nicely in a couple weeks.  I have one or two of those bottles left from that batch and will enjoy them on a special occasion.

I think that pouring back into a keg for forced carbonation is asking for more trouble (from an oxidation and contamination risk), as I see it, but it will get carbonated taking that route.

Best of luck and I hope you get a good result regardless of what you do.

I think this will be my course of action.

1. Would adding more sugar give anyone pause?  The two beers that I opened were completely flat, so my thinking is that the sugar from the carbonation drops is still floating around in these bottles.  If I add more sugar, do I run the risk of over-carbing?

2. Yeast: Lallemand CBC-1?  I do have a sacrificial pack of BRY-97 at home.  I'm assuming the concern now is whether or not the fresh yeast will ferment in an 11+% ABV environment. 

Thanks everyone for the help.

Online Megary

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Re: Imperial Stout - Comments appreciated
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2023, 05:57:09 pm »
To put a bow on this, for anyone with a similar problem. 

About 7 months after brewing the beer - which was still completely flat in the bottle - I decided to add a smidge ( about 1/16 tsp, give or take) of CBC-1 yeast to the 8 remaining bomber bottles.  About 4-5 weeks after that I decided to check out my progress.

I can’t post pix here, but…

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/no-carbonation-from-bottled-imperial-stout.16448/page-2#post-187257

I’m back in business.  This is NOT a beer for a hot August evening, but it is a very decent Imperial Stout.  The sticktoitiveness of this exercise has me quite stoked.  Coffee and chocolate flavors abound, Alcohol warmth is the kicker.  These are the homebrewing good days.   ;)