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Author Topic: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post  (Read 1246 times)

Offline lupulus

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Great news~
The Quest for Edelstoff, one of the blogs that stands the test of time is posting again.
Prost!

https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/2022/07/11/kesselmaischen-the-kettle-mash/
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”  Neil deGrasse Tyson

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2022, 06:01:14 am »
I've done Kesselmaischs for Dunkels.

Are you familiar with the Earl's Decoction mash procedure? It was covered in the decoction talk at HomebrewCon.
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline lupulus

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Re: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2022, 03:50:13 pm »
I've done Kesselmaischs for Dunkels.

Are you familiar with the Earl's Decoction mash procedure? It was covered in the decoction talk at HomebrewCon.
I did not.
After reading...
It's similar to a decoction I propose in TMB in which you mash then decoct 85% of the grains, cool it down, and add Distillers malt to finalize the conversion.
I BIAB, so just get the bag out, cool with chiller, add new bag with Distillers and mash normally. You can use water instead,  of course.
Distillers has more than twice the DP of a German pils, but probably 4-5 times more beta.
So...
Distillers seems more flexible than an arbitrary base malt.

BTW Sorry didn't go to NHC. See you next time.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”  Neil deGrasse Tyson

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2022, 09:24:31 pm »
I've done Kesselmaischs for Dunkels.

Are you familiar with the Earl's Decoction mash procedure? It was covered in the decoction talk at HomebrewCon.
I did not.
After reading...
It's similar to a decoction I propose in TMB in which you mash then decoct 85% of the grains, cool it down, and add Distillers malt to finalize the conversion.
I BIAB, so just get the bag out, cool with chiller, add new bag with Distillers and mash normally. You can use water instead,  of course.
Distillers has more than twice the DP of a German pils, but probably 4-5 times more beta.
So...
Distillers seems more flexible than an arbitrary base malt.

BTW Sorry didn't go to NHC. See you next time.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

It was in Jan Bucklmaiers (SP) presentation on decoctions. Earl is a German Homebrewer. Missed you, enjoyed your beers at the Zellots booth.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline lupulus

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Re: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2022, 06:32:08 am »
I've done Kesselmaischs for Dunkels.

Are you familiar with the Earl's Decoction mash procedure? It was covered in the decoction talk at HomebrewCon.
I did not.
After reading...
It's similar to a decoction I propose in TMB in which you mash then decoct 85% of the grains, cool it down, and add Distillers malt to finalize the conversion.
I BIAB, so just get the bag out, cool with chiller, add new bag with Distillers and mash normally. You can use water instead,  of course.
Distillers has more than twice the DP of a German pils, but probably 4-5 times more beta.
So...
Distillers seems more flexible than an arbitrary base malt.

BTW Sorry didn't go to NHC. See you next time.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

It was in Jan Bucklmaiers (SP) presentation on decoctions. Earl is a German Homebrewer. Missed you, enjoyed your beers at the Zellots booth.
If I were a great mind, I would say great minds think alike

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”  Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline BrewBama

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The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2022, 07:30:17 am »
I have adopted the ‘Fermenting Lagers in 21 Days’ technique based on Annemüller’s work in combination with the ‘Classic Warm Fermentation’.  Admittedly, I use a +3-4°F higher pitch and fermentation temp (I use 55°F) than recommended. However, I have been successfully producing very good beers. Given that Fermentis studied W34/70 at much higher temps (65°+F) I feel confident I am OK.

https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/fermenting-lagers-in-21-days/
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 06:57:01 am by BrewBama »

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2022, 10:47:01 am »
Interesting discussion on the mash process (I go 90 minutes in step or infusion mash, stirring occasionally, and accept the mash results).  Just wondering out loud as to what the impact might be of using pressure fermentation...I have been making lagers under pressure (5-15 psi range) and fermenting in the mid 50's F for quite some time.  Using a Tilt for monitoring, it usually can complete primary in 5-6 days, then I transfer under pressure the partially carbonated beer, keeping 12 psi on the keg for a few days.  I like to give the lager a week or so longer to go bright.  Usually that is all it takes to be pretty clear.  If a batch doesn't clear in that time, I discontinue the re-pitching of that batch of yeast.
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Offline BrewBama

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The Quest for Edelstoff rides again ! - Kesselmaischen post
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2022, 11:49:19 am »
As far as mash goes, I swap between step and single infusion.

If I use a step it’s β-amylase rest at 140°F for 30 min, α-amylase rest at 158°F for 45 min, and a mash out Vorlauf/Hot Steep/Lauter rest at 167°F for 30 min. (60°, 70°, and 75°C respectively).  I base these numbers off the chart that depicts enzyme activity at certain temp windows. I used to use a lot more steps which was a major PITA. Every 30-45 min isn’t so bad. This seems to work well.

If I use single infusion it’s 152°F for an hour then mash out at 170°F for 30 min.

I know mash out isn’t required for 30 min, or even at all, but this is when I add my dark grains that screw with mash pH so I give it a full 30 min.



*Disclaimer*: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. I am not paid or sponsored by anyone. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 12:01:04 pm by BrewBama »