[redrocker652002]

My wife has given me the OK to look into getting another keg and ditching bottles altogether.  My current process is to make a batch to keg, then wait a few weeks and make a batch to bottle.  That way, there is always something in the home brew available (if they are good of course).  I would have to keep the second keg at room temp probably in my closet that has not gotten above 73 degrees ambient since I have been paying attention.  In the research that I have done (search of this site mostly) it seems that a full Corny keg with the head space purged of any O2 can be stored at room temp for up to six months?  I don't think I will need it that long, but would that be a good guess?  My beers have been of the hoppy variety, mostly IPA's and delving into the Pale Ale and even Blonde Ale arena.  So, with that said, would I be safe to store a full Corny keg of say and IPA for a month or two at room temps?  If not, I will keep the bottles as I have collected enough bottles to make 3 5 gallon batches.  They do take up a bit of space, and honestly I don't mind.  But heck, if she gives me to go ahead why not.  My end goal is to have either a bigger fridge that will serve 3 or a keezer, so this is a small step towards that goal.  Any input is greatly appreciated.  And yes, I have used the search button so this is just more for confirmation of what I think I already know.  RR

[chinaski]

What you propose should be OK.  Purists will say that the hoppy beers need to be turned over quickly even when stored well.  One thing you can add to this to possibly cut down oxidation in the stored beer is to use priming sugar to carbonate the keg so as to scrub out any introduced oxygen with transfers and the like.  Treat the keg like one big bottle and prime it while you kill the other keg.  This is what the owner of my LHBS does- here is a link to her method: https://www.vermonthomebrew.com/how-to/how-to-prime-your-kegged-homebrew

Good luck.

[BrewBama]

Another option would be to closed transfer to the purged keg* with ~1-2% extract remaining. It saves the prime addition step but does the same thing. The yeast in suspension consumes the extract it in the keg.

VLB’s Annemüller documents the process in Managing Fermentation and Maturation of Beer although I think it’s been around longer than that. But he did study the process and document the results as a viable solution. These are the ‘Cliffs Notes’: https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/fermenting-lagers-in-21-days/  (for an IPA you’d use Ale temps vs the Lager temps cited but the results will be the same)

If you attach a spunding valve you can fairly accurately control keg pressure during this secondary fermentation.

Regardless of how you choose to prime the secondary in the keg, when you do cold condition, I recommend doing it under CO2 pressure. When the temp is lowered, the contents of the keg contracts. As the contents of the keg contracts, you’ll be replacing the void with CO2. If you cool the beer without CO2 pressure applied, due to the design of the keg itself, you’ll draw in air around the seals of the keg to replace that void. This can lead to oxidation. There are many devices used to capture CO2 to use for this purpose but I just use a bottle.

*The keg can be purged with fermentation CO2 to save on bottled CO2.

Below is my 2xBock in secondary now. I am using my fermentation fridge but your closet will serve the same purpose. It started at 1.070. I transferred at 1.014 with an anticipation that this beer will finish ~1.010 or so. Notice the pressure is ~30 psi. (A bit too high IMO) When I transferred to the keg I applied 10 psi from a bottle just to get positive pressure against the seals. The pressure built up to 30 psi naturally and I am getting bubbles in the airlock jar. IOW, the beer is secondary fermenting under pressure. I have considered plumbing another keg into this secondary setup to capture the CO2 but that’s a project still on the drawing board.


**Disclaimer**: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. I am not paid or sponsored by anyone. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV

[redrocker652002]

What you propose should be OK.  Purists will say that the hoppy beers need to be turned over quickly even when stored well.  One thing you can add to this to possibly cut down oxidation in the stored beer is to use priming sugar to carbonate the keg so as to scrub out any introduced oxygen with transfers and the like.  Treat the keg like one big bottle and prime it while you kill the other keg.  This is what the owner of my LHBS does- here is a link to her method: https://www.vermonthomebrew.com/how-to/how-to-prime-your-kegged-homebrew

Good luck.

That looks to be pretty straight forward.  Might be a nice option to try.  Thank you for that.  RR

[redrocker652002]

Another option would be to closed transfer to the purged keg* with ~1-2% extract remaining. It saves the prime addition step but does the same thing. The yeast in suspension consumes the extract it in the keg.

VLB’s Annemüller documents the process in Managing Fermentation and Maturation of Beer although I think it’s been around longer than that. But he did study the process and document the results as a viable solution. These are the ‘Cliffs Notes’: https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/fermenting-lagers-in-21-days/  (for an IPA you’d use Ale temps vs the Lager temps cited but the results will be the same)

If you attach a spunding valve you can fairly accurately control keg pressure during this secondary fermentation.

Regardless of how you choose to prime the secondary in the keg, when you do cold condition, I recommend doing it under CO2 pressure. When the temp is lowered, the contents of the keg contracts. As the contents of the keg contracts, you’ll be replacing the void with CO2. If you cool the beer without CO2 pressure applied, due to the design of the keg itself, you’ll draw in air around the seals of the keg to replace that void. This can lead to oxidation. There are many devices used to capture CO2 to use for this purpose but I just use a bottle.

*The keg can be purged with fermentation CO2 to save on bottled CO2.

Below is my 2xBock in secondary now. I am using my fermentation fridge but your closet will serve the same purpose. It started at 1.070. I transferred at 1.014 with an anticipation that this beer will finish ~1.010 or so. Notice the pressure is ~30 psi. (A bit too high IMO) When I transferred to the keg I applied 10 psi from a bottle just to get positive pressure against the seals. The pressure built up to 30 psi naturally and I am getting bubbles in the airlock jar. IOW, the beer is secondary fermenting under pressure. I have considered plumbing another keg into this secondary setup to capture the CO2 but that’s a project still on the drawing board.


**Disclaimer**: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. I am not paid or sponsored by anyone. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV

Thank you for all the info.  My transfer method has been a line on the spigot of the bucket, attach a ball valve to the other end of the line and attach to the liquid line of the keg.  I put the bucket up higher than the keg.  Add CO2 and purge the keg a few times to get all  the oxygen out, then open the pressure relief valve, seal up the lid on the keg and open the spigot.  I think this is a form of closed transfer as the liquid goes right from the bucket to the keg in a sealed line instead of just opening the keg and running the end of the hose to the bottom of the keg.  Right?  In the research I have done, I think I got this part right.  LOL. 

[redrocker652002]

So, if I am reading correctly, if I add the priming sugar mixture to the keg, at the rate needed for a 5 gallon batch, seal the keg and open the PRV, let it sit in my closet at say 68 to 70 degrees that will be ok to keep the keg for a few weeks until I finish the other one?  Or do I keep the PRV closed so that the sugar will start the carbonating process and add the CO2 when I put it in the kegerator.  Just trying to dumb it down to my level.   LOL.

[ynotbrusum]

Simplified - you want a sealed vessel to allow the carbonation to occur without escape.  No leaks should be present, so give the keg a CO2 "kick" from the CO2 bottle after adding the priming sugar to cause the lid to fully seal with the PRV closed.  That would be about 10 psi or more.  Then just allow the CO2 to build with the priming sugar being consumed by the yeast in the solution.

[jeffy]

Another tip for closed transfers is to fill the keg with sanitizer, then push it out with CO2.  This displaces much more oxygen than just purging it a few times.  Remember to release the gas before draining the beer into the keg (ask me how I know). 
Also adding the priming sugar to the bucket before transfer may be better than adding it to the keg.

[Richard]

What you described is not a completely closed transfer because air goes into the fermenter as the liquid drains out the bottom. That exposes the beer on top to oxygen. To avoid that you need to close the PRV on the keg and attach a hose from the gas post on the keg to a post on the top of the fermenter. Then as the liquid goes into the keg it will push CO2 from the keg back into the fermenter to replace the liquid lost there. It is now a completely closed system. You start with CO2 in the keg and beer in the fermenter and you end up with beer in the keg and CO2 in the fermenter. Nothing has gone in or out.

[ynotbrusum]

What you described is not a completely closed transfer because air goes into the fermenter as the liquid drains out the bottom. That exposes the beer on top to oxygen. To avoid that you need to close the PRV on the keg and attach a hose from the gas post on the keg to a post on the top of the fermenter. Then as the liquid goes into the keg it will push CO2 from the keg back into the fermenter to replace the liquid lost there. It is now a completely closed system. You start with CO2 in the keg and beer in the fermenter and you end up with beer in the keg and CO2 in the fermenter. Nothing has gone in or out.

But remember to purge the added CO2 line from the keg back to the fermenter!  Easily done if you are starting with a partially charged keg...just attach to the keg first and push in the QDC at the other end of the hose to discharge any O2 in that hose.

[chinaski]

Simplified - you want a sealed vessel to allow the carbonation to occur without escape.  No leaks should be present, so give the keg a CO2 "kick" from the CO2 bottle after adding the priming sugar to cause the lid to fully seal with the PRV closed.  That would be about 10 psi or more.  Then just allow the CO2 to build with the priming sugar being consumed by the yeast in the solution.

No leaks are key!  The one time that I tried this, there must have been a leak as the beer was flat.  I'm gonna try again with this "kick" method. 

For my non-hoppy beers I'm not concerned enough with short-term, temporary oxidation to bother with all the closed transfer/purging kegs with CO2 shenanigans.  Do what is simple enough to do well and move forward from there.