[erockrph]

Has anyone had a chance to play with Incognito yet? I just ordered a few containers of the homebrew-sized (20g) packages that YVH is selling (Citra and Mosaic). I'm a big fan of the character I get from Cryo Hops, but I still feel like a get a bit of vegetal character, especially at higher usage rates. Having a hop extract that can be added right to the whirlpool seems like it might be a way around this.

My next beer will be a "hopless" IPA - bittered with Hop Shot, using Incognito and Phantasm in the whirlpool, and fermented with Helio Gazer. I'm curious whether it's going to taste like it's "missing" something, or whether it will be on par with IPA's brewed with cones and pellets.

[denny]

Dunno how you get vegetal from Cryo since there's nothing but lupulin there. No bract.

[erockrph]

Dunno how you get vegetal from Cryo since there's nothing but lupulin there. No bract.

Vegetal may not be the best term, but there's an astringent bitterness that I pick up from a heavy late-hop load that is different than what I get from a typical high-IBU 60-minute addition. When I use Cryo this is greatly reduced, but I still notice it at a low level when I use large amounts of Cryo (like 1-2 oz/gallon in the whirlpool)

[denny]

Dunno how you get vegetal from Cryo since there's nothing but lupulin there. No bract.

Vegetal may not be the best term, but there's an astringent bitterness that I pick up from a heavy late-hop load that is different than what I get from a typical high-IBU 60-minute addition. When I use Cryo this is greatly reduced, but I still notice it at a low level when I use large amounts of Cryo (like 1-2 oz/gallon in the whirlpool)

That's more than large! 

[tommymorris]

Dunno how you get vegetal from Cryo since there's nothing but lupulin there. No bract.

Vegetal may not be the best term, but there's an astringent bitterness that I pick up from a heavy late-hop load that is different than what I get from a typical high-IBU 60-minute addition. When I use Cryo this is greatly reduced, but I still notice it at a low level when I use large amounts of Cryo (like 1-2 oz/gallon in the whirlpool)

I like Cryo and Lupomax. I think they are quite potent and for me take a couple weeks to settle down. But, they are worth the wait for the pure hop flavors. I am sure the Incognito will be good too. Being in liquid form will be nice. I just got to the bottom of a keg of IPA dry hopped with Cryo hops. I just dropped the hops in the keg; no bag. There was so much fine hop matter at the bottom of the keg I lost about a pint more beer than usual (not a huge deal). I may have to start using Denny’s 3 days at 35F dry hop method.

[BrewBama]

As a side note: Lupomax is on sale right now. https://yakimavalleyhops.com/products/lupomax


*Disclaimer*: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV

[erockrph]

I finally got around to brewing my "hopless" IPA on Friday. The Incognito extract is rather thick, and didn't want to mix into the wort too easily. It was sort of like globs of fat on top of chicken soup initially, and I could see it start to separate a bit if I went more than a few minutes between stirs. It smelled very similar to Hop Shot extract - super concentrated and resinous. The interesting thing was that the Citra extract and Mosaic extract looked totally different. One was dark like pine tar, and the other was golden yellow. The smell was too concentrated to be able to pick out much nuance, but there was a definite difference between the two. The Citra was more dank and the Mosaic was a bit brighter. Of course, it's hard to say how that will translate once diluted to a full batch of beer. I'm very interested to see how this turns out.

I can completely understand why a commercial brewery would want to use these products. Between the Hop Shot I used for bittering and the Incognito in the whirlpool, I replaced about 10 ounces worth of hops with extract. My kettle had nothing but break material and a small amount of sludge from the Phantasm powder I used in the whirlpool. I probably increased my yield by 5-10%. That's small potatoes in a 3 gallon batch, but that would be huge in a 10 barrel brewhouse.