[ScallyWag]

Wow.  Thanks guys for this discussion.

I occasionally supplement my all-grain (BIAB) mashes with up to a pound (rarely 2 lbs) of Briess DME, for my high gravity beers.  While they've all been fairly good, I think the more DME I've used, the less impressed I've been.  I should check my notes on that.

so, FredTheCat, are you saying that Munton's DME is... "more chemically neutral"?  (I'm trying to avoid asking if it's a better product, but I guess I am)

I've never used Munton's DME, but it's probably comparable in price for me. 

Incidentally, I do nothing with water quality except use my fridge filter, or tap water with Campden tab.  (I'm just not yet ready to introduce that level of effort into my brew processes.)

This is good info.  Thanks to all of you who've discussed this here.

[fredthecat]

Wow.  Thanks guys for this discussion.

I occasionally supplement my all-grain (BIAB) mashes with up to a pound (rarely 2 lbs) of Briess DME, for my high gravity beers.  While they've all been fairly good, I think the more DME I've used, the less impressed I've been.  I should check my notes on that.

so, FredTheCat, are you saying that Munton's DME is... "more chemically neutral"?  (I'm trying to avoid asking if it's a better product, but I guess I am)

I've never used Munton's DME, but it's probably comparable in price for me. 

Incidentally, I do nothing with water quality except use my fridge filter, or tap water with Campden tab.  (I'm just not yet ready to introduce that level of effort into my brew processes.)

This is good info.  Thanks to all of you who've discussed this here.

ive never used muntons DME, i think many people here have access to different DME like williams(?) in the states, so you might check what you can get. but the idea is basically the water used by the extract producer has amounts of minerals in it, and briess is in an area that has an unusually high amount of sodium in it, so that ends up in the DME.

i used this particular brand of DME in many brews in partial amounts for a while, and enjoyed some, one was truthfully really good. but it started to really hit me when i was using DME for all the fermentables other than specialty grains. so thats my data point/observation.

to re-iterate: the problem (at least for me) is the one brand results in a product that is sort of insipid and flat tasting to an extreme degree. LME and presumably other brands of DME do not cause that problem. LME has its own set of problems, but I use it for boosting gravity in very big brews in 10-20% amounts.

all that aside everyone has a different tongue and preferences, so it might just be me!


re: not treating your water - im increasingly moving back to barely treating my water, realizing that i was overtreating for a while now. if you have great water in your city pipes (or well) it can make as good a beer as any.

[neuse]

I don't know if the flavor difference was truly noticable in the glass, but water with a little mineral content generally tastes better than RO or distilled... So I figured it couldn't hurt to add a bit for flavor.

I would be really cautious about using all-grain water chemistry profiles with DME - for example, a "Pale Ale" profile (say 250ppm SO4 and 65ppm Cl) applied to a DME recipe has a good chance of being an over mineralized beer.  Brand also matters (see the Bru'nWater spreadsheet and the book Brewing Engineering, 2e for details).

Good point (@majorvices too). I hadn't really thought about mineral carryover from their brewing of the wort that became the extract.

i almost didnt want to chime in, but my main source of reasonably priced DME is only briess and i have had to stop using it because of the excessive sodium in anything beyond a lb or 2 in a beer or for starters. google it and it will come up.

i use LME to bump up gravity in beers i want to make very large because i know its very fresh from my LHBS. i feel bad just going to them for that one ingredient but lol, i know its very fresh there and one of the few things of their's thats actually cheaper than online.

As an alternative to a web search:

• BrunWater (v 1.25),  instructions tab, rows 141, 142, and 143
• https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/briess-malt-extract-water-analyses.15485/#post-158241

Brewing Engineering, 2e (2015) and How To Brew (4e) are good sources of additional information. 

With those four resources, it's not hard to create a "season to taste" process using Cl, SO4, and Na.

Here's another one.  The Wisconsin DNR provides water analysis information for any licensed well or municipality, and I know how to look it up.  Sodium in Chilton is 170 ppm, so unless Briess treats or dilutes that in some manner... yeah.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/extract-porter-questions-briess-dme-mineral-profile.664153/#post-7426204

I read one of your posts (Reply #10) in an older thread https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=36475.0 where you talked about Briess using an RO system and getting low sodium. I thought I understood it correctly, but maybe not. Or maybe this is old news? Can you elaborate?

[dmtaylor]

I don't know if the flavor difference was truly noticable in the glass, but water with a little mineral content generally tastes better than RO or distilled... So I figured it couldn't hurt to add a bit for flavor.

I would be really cautious about using all-grain water chemistry profiles with DME - for example, a "Pale Ale" profile (say 250ppm SO4 and 65ppm Cl) applied to a DME recipe has a good chance of being an over mineralized beer.  Brand also matters (see the Bru'nWater spreadsheet and the book Brewing Engineering, 2e for details).

Good point (@majorvices too). I hadn't really thought about mineral carryover from their brewing of the wort that became the extract.

i almost didnt want to chime in, but my main source of reasonably priced DME is only briess and i have had to stop using it because of the excessive sodium in anything beyond a lb or 2 in a beer or for starters. google it and it will come up.

i use LME to bump up gravity in beers i want to make very large because i know its very fresh from my LHBS. i feel bad just going to them for that one ingredient but lol, i know its very fresh there and one of the few things of their's thats actually cheaper than online.

As an alternative to a web search:

• BrunWater (v 1.25),  instructions tab, rows 141, 142, and 143
• https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/briess-malt-extract-water-analyses.15485/#post-158241

Brewing Engineering, 2e (2015) and How To Brew (4e) are good sources of additional information. 

With those four resources, it's not hard to create a "season to taste" process using Cl, SO4, and Na.

Here's another one.  The Wisconsin DNR provides water analysis information for any licensed well or municipality, and I know how to look it up.  Sodium in Chilton is 170 ppm, so unless Briess treats or dilutes that in some manner... yeah.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/extract-porter-questions-briess-dme-mineral-profile.664153/#post-7426204

I read one of your posts (Reply #10) in an older thread https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=36475.0 where you talked about Briess using an RO system and getting low sodium. I thought I understood it correctly, but maybe not. Or maybe this is old news? Can you elaborate?

On that other thread, we were talking about the malting itself, which happens in the city of Manitowoc.  The extract however is made using that malt but happens many miles west in Chilton.  Manitowoc water is very soft and clean.  It is the Chilton water with high sodium that is used in making the extract that is of concern.  I can understand the confusion but the difference is malted grain vs. extract being produced in two different locations.

[neuse]

dmtaylor: Thanks much for the explanation.