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Author Topic: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)  (Read 3688 times)

Offline joshlaston

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First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« on: February 20, 2023, 10:25:02 am »
I am getting back into brewing after about a decade away (I finally have the space to do things right). And I am glutting for punishment and starting with a Vienna lager. Pressure fermenting (Fermzilla) seems to make it so I can finally get a lager to work at the ambient temps of my basement (68f).

I'm looking to see if anyone has experience with s-23 under pressure. Basically, how long it usually takes under the conditions outlined below, or any helpful hints? I may have already done some things wrong, but it's an exbeeriment.

Vienna Lager
SG - 1.040
Target FG - 1.011
Ambient temp - 68f
Yeast - s-23
Current pressure - 15psi

Oxgigenated before pitch with a stone for 15 seconds
Direct pitch at 70f
Pressure at pitch - 15psi

I have a party tap to take samples once I get five days in. The wait will kill me, but I don't want to waste those precious oz with anxiety. So any hints from experience would be fantastic.

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 10:27:55 am »
All I can tell you about is that Chris White told me that different yeasts require different pressures and temps.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline joshlaston

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2023, 10:46:45 am »
From poking around the forums, where I started seems to be the closest to a consensus I could find. I figured that asking directly may bring people out of the woodwork.

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2023, 08:16:16 pm »
Great yeast under pressure, balanced profile with hints of imitation vanilla extract on the nose. Direct pitch and set head pressure will add a day to fermenting, you should be done in 6 days tops. The yeast handles up to 30 psi no problem, just slowly back it down if you want to repitch part of it again.

Offline saaz amore

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2023, 08:29:29 pm »

Offline MNWayne

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2023, 07:49:00 am »
So let me get this straight... there is a belief that pressure fermenting can get you cold ferment results at warm temps?
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Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2023, 08:32:49 am »
So let me get this straight... there is a belief that pressure fermenting can get you cold ferment results at warm temps?

That is correct.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline joshlaston

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2023, 09:35:41 am »
Great yeast under pressure, balanced profile with hints of imitation vanilla extract on the nose. Direct pitch and set head pressure will add a day to fermenting, you should be done in 6 days tops. The yeast handles up to 30 psi no problem, just slowly back it down if you want to repitch part of it again.

Thanks. This is pretty much what I was looking for. I'm 4 days out from pitch and the constant release from my homemade spunding valve (put together with parts from my company's HVAC stock for $20) is done. The PRV I used is only rated for 15psi (and it's accurate) so I couldn't go whole hog at 20-30 psi as many recommend.

I will take a reading tonight, hopefully cold crash Friday, keg transfer Saturday, and have something close to drinkable Sunday.

Offline joshlaston

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2023, 09:47:01 am »
So let me get this straight... there is a belief that pressure fermenting can get you cold ferment results at warm temps?

From all the research I did before starting this, while not a 100% match, it's 95% or better. Side-by-side comparisons of a split batch (countless youtube videos on the topic), people can tell there was something different between them, but drinking one without a comparison seems to be nearly imperceptible. For me, if I can get a clean lawnmower beer grain to keg in a week, I'm sold.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2023, 02:04:58 pm »
You might want to give the beer a chance to lager for a week or so after racking to keg, as I see general beer improvement as a little more bit of lagering is allowed to occur.  The beer will be drinkable after cold-crashing, but it will improve with a little more storage.  At least that has been my experience.  Also, 15 psi for a lager is perfectly fine.  For what it is worth, I cold ferment under pressure - for me pressure fermentation is about the reduced esters and the use of pressurized vessels to avoid cold-side O2 exposure. 

I purge my empty kegs with the CO2 blow off of actively fermenting beers by filling them with sanitizer and connecting a spunding valve in line to purge and then switching the spunding valve to the out post on the keg after it has purged out all sanitizer to set some head pressure on the now empty, sanitized CO2-purged keg (remember to change QDC's on the spunding valve though!).
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Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2023, 02:37:17 pm »
Great yeast under pressure, balanced profile with hints of imitation vanilla extract on the nose. Direct pitch and set head pressure will add a day to fermenting, you should be done in 6 days tops. The yeast handles up to 30 psi no problem, just slowly back it down if you want to repitch part of it again.

Thanks. This is pretty much what I was looking for. I'm 4 days out from pitch and the constant release from my homemade spunding valve (put together with parts from my company's HVAC stock for $20) is done. The PRV I used is only rated for 15psi (and it's accurate) so I couldn't go whole hog at 20-30 psi as many recommend.

I will take a reading tonight, hopefully cold crash Friday, keg transfer Saturday, and have something close to drinkable Sunday.

If you like the results with S23, I can give some tips to accelerate turnaround time with it, without sacrificing quality. I have made 400 gallons+ with S23 under pressure, it's a solid yeast!

Offline joshlaston

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2023, 03:03:28 pm »
You might want to give the beer a chance to lager for a week or so after racking to keg, as I see general beer improvement as a little more bit of lagering is allowed to occur.  The beer will be drinkable after cold-crashing, but it will improve with a little more storage.  At least that has been my experience.  Also, 15 psi for a lager is perfectly fine.  For what it is worth, I cold ferment under pressure - for me pressure fermentation is about the reduced esters and the use of pressurized vessels to avoid cold-side O2 exposure. 

I purge my empty kegs with the CO2 blow off of actively fermenting beers by filling them with sanitizer and connecting a spunding valve in line to purge and then switching the spunding valve to the out post on the keg after it has purged out all sanitizer to set some head pressure on the now empty, sanitized CO2-purged keg (remember to change QDC's on the spunding valve though!).

My version of cold crashing is actually going to be in a repurposed keg with a floating dip tube. I don't have anywhere that the Fermzilla will fit to cold crash in the tank. I was planning on turning my kegerator on max and just letting it sit. Maybe per your recommendation, I just let it sit for a week or so and pull a few off the top for quality control. I was already planning on mixing up a full keg of sanitizer and pressure transferring the sanitizer to the final before I did my cold-crash routine.

Offline joshlaston

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2023, 03:13:19 pm »
Great yeast under pressure, balanced profile with hints of imitation vanilla extract on the nose. Direct pitch and set head pressure will add a day to fermenting, you should be done in 6 days tops. The yeast handles up to 30 psi no problem, just slowly back it down if you want to repitch part of it again.

Thanks. This is pretty much what I was looking for. I'm 4 days out from pitch and the constant release from my homemade spunding valve (put together with parts from my company's HVAC stock for $20) is done. The PRV I used is only rated for 15psi (and it's accurate) so I couldn't go whole hog at 20-30 psi as many recommend.

I will take a reading tonight, hopefully cold crash Friday, keg transfer Saturday, and have something close to drinkable Sunday.

If you like the results with S23, I can give some tips to accelerate turnaround time with it, without sacrificing quality. I have made 400 gallons+ with S23 under pressure, it's a solid yeast!

I'm all ears. Coming from only doing ales for ages before my break, I generally appreciate a bit of character. My friend that convinced me to get back into brewing uses s-23 constantly, just cold fermenting. He's never pressure fermented, hence why I had to ask this community.

I was debating having the temperature a bit higher just to speed things along, but didn't have a good way of controlling it. I have some Arduino projects that are formulating in my head, but I didn't want to hold off a brew day for a week when I could have beer ready for when I sit down at the workbench.

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2023, 04:12:08 pm »
Great yeast under pressure, balanced profile with hints of imitation vanilla extract on the nose. Direct pitch and set head pressure will add a day to fermenting, you should be done in 6 days tops. The yeast handles up to 30 psi no problem, just slowly back it down if you want to repitch part of it again.

Thanks. This is pretty much what I was looking for. I'm 4 days out from pitch and the constant release from my homemade spunding valve (put together with parts from my company's HVAC stock for $20) is done. The PRV I used is only rated for 15psi (and it's accurate) so I couldn't go whole hog at 20-30 psi as many recommend.

I will take a reading tonight, hopefully cold crash Friday, keg transfer Saturday, and have something close to drinkable Sunday.

If you like the results with S23, I can give some tips to accelerate turnaround time with it, without sacrificing quality. I have made 400 gallons+ with S23 under pressure, it's a solid yeast!

I'm all ears. Coming from only doing ales for ages before my break, I generally appreciate a bit of character. My friend that convinced me to get back into brewing uses s-23 constantly, just cold fermenting. He's never pressure fermented, hence why I had to ask this community.

I was debating having the temperature a bit higher just to speed things along, but didn't have a good way of controlling it. I have some Arduino projects that are formulating in my head, but I didn't want to hold off a brew day for a week when I could have beer ready for when I sit down at the workbench.

Here's some things that really help me move things along. The morning of brew day make a 500ml vitality starter with 1 tsp goferm protect evolution (I use fresh frozen hopped wort from the previous batch) using only 1 sachet of yeast. With the few hours this vitality starter has, it will chew 8-12+ points in the first 24 hours vs 1-3 points from just sprinkling in dry yeast into the fermenter. No need for any oxygen or aeration at all either. Pitch at 58-60 if possible and let it natively build pressure to your desired level, don't worry if the temperature slowly rises as it builds pressure. If you use clearzyme or clarity ferm at pitch you won't need any other finings like gelatin. Once kegged bring it to 30°F for 24 hours and then adjust the temperature to your preferred serving temperature. With the above steps you should be serving a very tasty clear lager in just 14 days. With Nottingham I can confidently serve a gin clear cream ale in 7 days using the above process.

Offline MDL

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2023, 07:56:40 am »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.