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Author Topic: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)  (Read 3689 times)

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2023, 10:38:38 am »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.


« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 10:40:51 am by Red over White »

Offline erockrph

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2023, 12:02:23 pm »
Here's some things that really help me move things along. The morning of brew day make a 500ml vitality starter with 1 tsp goferm protect evolution (I use fresh frozen hopped wort from the previous batch) using only 1 sachet of yeast. With the few hours this vitality starter has, it will chew 8-12+ points in the first 24 hours vs 1-3 points from just sprinkling in dry yeast into the fermenter. No need for any oxygen or aeration at all either. Pitch at 58-60 if possible and let it natively build pressure to your desired level, don't worry if the temperature slowly rises as it builds pressure. If you use clearzyme or clarity ferm at pitch you won't need any other finings like gelatin. Once kegged bring it to 30°F for 24 hours and then adjust the temperature to your preferred serving temperature. With the above steps you should be serving a very tasty clear lager in just 14 days. With Nottingham I can confidently serve a gin clear cream ale in 7 days using the above process.
Thanks for sharing this. Do you have any other ale strains that you have experience with fermenting under pressure? I generally ferment my ales under maybe 2 PSI (just enough to lightly close my spunding valve), then let it pressurize at the tail end of fermentation. I've never really thought to try running them under 15 PSI like I do with lagers, but I could see benefits in something like an IPA, where you'd potentially be offgassing less hop aromatics during active fermentation.

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Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2023, 12:59:59 pm »
Here's some things that really help me move things along. The morning of brew day make a 500ml vitality starter with 1 tsp goferm protect evolution (I use fresh frozen hopped wort from the previous batch) using only 1 sachet of yeast. With the few hours this vitality starter has, it will chew 8-12+ points in the first 24 hours vs 1-3 points from just sprinkling in dry yeast into the fermenter. No need for any oxygen or aeration at all either. Pitch at 58-60 if possible and let it natively build pressure to your desired level, don't worry if the temperature slowly rises as it builds pressure. If you use clearzyme or clarity ferm at pitch you won't need any other finings like gelatin. Once kegged bring it to 30°F for 24 hours and then adjust the temperature to your preferred serving temperature. With the above steps you should be serving a very tasty clear lager in just 14 days. With Nottingham I can confidently serve a gin clear cream ale in 7 days using the above process.
Thanks for sharing this. Do you have any other ale strains that you have experience with fermenting under pressure? I generally ferment my ales under maybe 2 PSI (just enough to lightly close my spunding valve), then let it pressurize at the tail end of fermentation. I've never really thought to try running them under 15 PSI like I do with lagers, but I could see benefits in something like an IPA, where you'd potentially be offgassing less hop aromatics during active fermentation.

Your welcome! I regularly use Verdant, Notty and now London, I'm really a lager guy though. Notty is clean no matter what, so it's dead easy. Verdant is tougher to slow down the esters even at a natural build to 10 psi, above 15 psi it slows down the Apricot a good bit. London is tricky, because how violent and fast it is, you have keep it low at first (2-3 psi to retain esters)and ramp pressure quickly at high kräusen if you want to fully carbonate it before it's done, which is my preferred method with every yeast.

It is said most ale yeasts create esters in the first 36 hours, lager yeasts can for double or triple that. I tend to agree with those sentiments. I have experimented with more simple sugars in the wort for increased ester production like zee Germans do with hefeweizen and I have seen an increase with Verdant and London. Hop aroma and flavor does improve with pressure fermenting, but it’s hard to quantify.

I have a few desert island beers that I brew a lot and usually only change 1 parameter each time. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I try to be observant and take very good notes. Every yeast is different and on my gear with my wort composition and pressure schedules I will likely get a different result from someone doing the same exact thing simultaneously next to me on their rig. I do lots of 10 and 15 gal batches in 2 or 3 different all rounders to learn faster. Full disclosure, my huge family is here every Sunday and help me get rid of beer quickly so I can brew more, no way I could go through that much otherwise. If you have any other questions, fire away. Since nobody is an expert in pressure fermentation yet, we need to share away to get to the bottom of it.

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2023, 01:15:19 pm »
Why do lager yeasts create esters for a longer period than ale yeast?
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Offline MDL

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2023, 01:41:14 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2023, 01:44:16 pm »
Why do lager yeasts create esters for a longer period than ale yeast?

I can't answer why, but papers on the subject have shown it to happen 100 hours+ into fermentation. Gun to my head, I would say it's just the way their built.


Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2023, 01:55:03 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2023, 01:58:28 pm »
Why do lager yeasts create esters for a longer period than ale yeast?

I can't answer why, but papers on the subject have shown it to happen 100 hours+ into fermentation. Gun to my head, I would say it's just the way their built.

I'm curious because that hasn't been my experience.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2023, 01:59:23 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline MDL

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2023, 02:04:42 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2023, 03:18:44 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Personally I don't see the point in making a starter for dry yeast. The manufacturers don't recommend it. Many even recommend against it. I get great performance without it. But if you do,the same thing goes...no aeration necessary.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline MDL

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2023, 03:40:39 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Personally I don't see the point in making a starter for dry yeast. The manufacturers don't recommend it. Many even recommend against it. I get great performance without it. But if you do,the same thing goes...no aeration necessary.

No aeration if the starter wort but what about the batch it’s pitched into? I think in this case they’re saying no need for aeration of the main batch the starter is pitched into?

Offline denny

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2023, 03:55:31 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Personally I don't see the point in making a starter for dry yeast. The manufacturers don't recommend it. Many even recommend against it. I get great performance without it. But if you do,the same thing goes...no aeration necessary.

No aeration if the starter wort but what about the batch it’s pitched into? I think in this case they’re saying no need for aeration of the main batch the starter is pitched into?

Because the sterols the yeast is produced with get used up in a starter, it essentially becomes liquid yeast. So I'd aerate the batch
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2023, 04:18:56 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Personally I don't see the point in making a starter for dry yeast. The manufacturers don't recommend it. Many even recommend against it. I get great performance without it. But if you do,the same thing goes...no aeration necessary.

I agree that the manufacturers don't recommend it for their brewing side products, but when I looked at their wine side dry yeast it was different in the adjuncts added with the yeast. That lead me to try different things. Here's some results from the last couple years of dry yeast summed up for the first 24 hours:

1-3 points Sprinkled dry onto wort
1-3 points Rehydated in boiled/cooled strike water
1-3 points Rehydated in boiled/cooled strike water with 1 tsp goferm protect evolution
6-8 points 500ml vitality starter made 4 hrs before pitch
8-16 points 500ml vitality starter with 1 tsp goferm protect evolution made 4 hrs before pitch

The results have been great for my brewing. Seeing low kräusen way earlier and the yeast dumping the pH sooner are positives all the way around to me. It really isn't much effort on a busy brew day either, but is it necessary... no. I agree you can make beer by skipping a vitality starter altogether.

Offline Red over White

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Re: First Pressure Ferment (s-23)
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2023, 04:28:40 pm »
Red and white, I’m intrigued by the vitality starter. Is that the amount for a 5 gallon batch? My SOP uses a lot of yeast and it would be good to save some money on dry yeast with your method.

I have a slightly different procedure that results in drinkable lager in about 14 days. If you can give it another 7 days lagering even better.

Pitch dry yeast into 50F wort at a rate of 1.9 grams per liter. Have had success with cellar science German, Berlin, Baja and Diamond lager.

Let fermentation raise temp to 54F and around day 5-6 cap fermenter to 15 psi. Remove settled yeast.

On day 7 start lowering temp 2-3F per day. When at 35-37 either keg with gelatin or lager another week.

Yes the starter is for 21L in the fermenter. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how well the above starter works. No stir plate either, just a couple gentle swirls to get the co² out. The goferm protect evolution provides many building blocks for the yeast that they can readily use only in the absence of oxygen.

I'm very familiar with Diamond and Berlin (which is super similar if not exactly S23 or an S23 blend). With these yeasts you might try fermenting around 55-58°F. In side by side split 10 gallon batches I couldn't tell the difference in the glass. It does speed up the ferment, but still equally clean in my experience. Hopefully some of this helps.

Ok I’m gonna try it. So if I’m making 15 gallon batch I would use a 1500ml starter with 36 grams of yeast. Morning of brewday?

How much go ferm should I use? Do you boil it with the starter wort?

Pitch the entire starter into chilled wort but no oxygen?

I love trying new tricks with dry yeast.

Yes, 3 tsp goferm protect evolution in your starter and boil it 5-10 mins. I pitch the entire starter and yes no need for oxygen at all. If I see 10 points in the first 24 hours,  I usually see twice that in the second 24 hours. Please report back with what your results are on your equipment. I typically do not temper my starter temperature down closer to the wort temperature, but if you normally do I would stick with that procedure.

If you use dry yeast, there is no need for O2 anyway,

Right. When I dry pitch I don’t oxygenate. I wasn’t sure on this case because of the vitality starter with wort first?

Personally I don't see the point in making a starter for dry yeast. The manufacturers don't recommend it. Many even recommend against it. I get great performance without it. But if you do,the same thing goes...no aeration necessary.

No aeration if the starter wort but what about the batch it’s pitched into? I think in this case they’re saying no need for aeration of the main batch the starter is pitched into?

Because the sterols the yeast is produced with get used up in a starter, it essentially becomes liquid yeast. So I'd aerate the batch

The goferm protect evolution provides sterols and unsaturated fatty acids in the vitality starter as it is its intended purpose. If you aerate, they will bypass taking them in directly even if readily available and build them from scratch extending lag time.