[hopfenundmalz]

Look at the Hochkurz section on Kai's write up. I've added a rest at 162F for head formation and retention.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Infusion_Mashing

[denny]

I use Wyermann Pilsner malt and 5% Durst Light Munich malt in my Helles and like the results.  I have seen no issues with body or head retention in the beer with this process.  I also agree with Denny that the protein rest is not necessary.  I did a three step mash with a protein rest once and didn't think it did anything wonderful to the beer.  So I took that rest out.

You guys have me now jonesing to make my Helles again.  Maybe this fall when I get caught up on all of the others that are on the list.

The protein rest is somewhere around 130°F, correct?  I might try this 149x15 + 156x30 mash on a helles and see what it does.  I typically just do a 150x60.  I also like your 95/5 pilsner + munich light.  I have some Wyeast 2124 on the way and I might try this recipe along with this mash schedule on it.  Thanks Goose.

That's the high end IIRC.  121 is the traditional temp.

[BrewBama]

Although it is not necessary, I always do a step mash with my Helles, a Beta rest at 149 degrees F for 15 minutes, ramp the temperature up to 156 degrees and do an Alpha rest for 30 minutes, then ramp up the temp to 168 degrees for a mash out  With the ramp times during the step mash rests, the total mash time is an hour.

I have done bot aa dingle infusion and a step mash on this beer and seem to prefer the body and flavor more with a step mash, YMMV.

I do something similar but much less sophisticated and controlled with most all of my brews.

I heat my strike liquor to my α-amylase rest temp in the kettle then underlet the MLT. Because the grain is room temp, this usually lands my mash in the neighborhood of 140°F +/- a few degrees for a β-amylase style rest. This lower temp does a cpl things: it helps reduce/eliminate dough balls and gets me some β-amylase focus.

Then, I set the clock for 1 hr, set the PID SV temp to mash temp, and it begins heating to my saccharification (combined β-amylase and α-amylase rest) — usually ~150-154°F or so. It usually takes 10-15 minutes or so to hit the α temp.

After the hour mash, I set the PID SV to 168°F to heat to mash out, and set the clock for 30 min which is probably overkill. This is when I cap the mash with dark grains if the recipe requires.

This is were 7.5 gal 154°F strike liquor landed after it was added to 6 lb Pale and 1 lb flaked barley today. Right at 140°F-ish:




*Disclaimer*: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. I am not paid or sponsored by anyone. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV

[Cliffs]

most of my lagers get a 148-157-162-175 mash schedule. 45 minutes at the beta and alpha rests, 15 minutes at the 162-175 rest.  I do single vessel BIAB and the 175 rest seems to really help me get clear wort

[HighVoltageMan!]

I use Wyermann Pilsner malt and 5% Durst Light Munich malt in my Helles and like the results.  I have seen no issues with body or head retention in the beer with this process.  I also agree with Denny that the protein rest is not necessary.  I did a three step mash with a protein rest once and didn't think it did anything wonderful to the beer.  So I took that rest out.

You guys have me now jonesing to make my Helles again.  Maybe this fall when I get caught up on all of the others that are on the list.

The protein rest is somewhere around 130°F, correct?  I might try this 149x15 + 156x30 mash on a helles and see what it does.  I typically just do a 150x60.  I also like your 95/5 pilsner + munich light.  I have some Wyeast 2124 on the way and I might try this recipe along with this mash schedule on it.  Thanks Goose.

That's the high end IIRC.  121 is the traditional temp.

Typical temperature of the protein rests can vary, but I believe the lower 120's is correct. The likelihood of any protein enzymes surviving the malting process is pretty low, there might be a little more in under-modified malt.

The more likely enzyme that still remains in any amount is beta glucanase. Both are important, but there not much proteolysis taking place in the mash without some form of protease in sufficient quantities. That's why people who try a protein rest often say it doesn't seem to do much to the beer. The beta glucanase enzyme is still active up to 130F, more of that enzyme survives the malting process than protease. If a rest is preformed at 120-130F, it's likely the mash will flow a little better due to the breaking down of beta glucan.

I skip the lower rests because it's mostly a waste of time. I do add some exogenous beta glucanase that can survive to mashout temperatures to help with the mash flow.

[fredthecat]

Typical temperature of the protein rests can vary, but I believe the lower 120's is correct. The likelihood of any protein enzymes surviving the malting process is pretty low, there might be a little more in under-modified malt.

The more likely enzyme that still remains in any amount is beta glucanase. Both are important, but there not much proteolysis taking place in the mash without some form of protease in sufficient quantities. That's why people who try a protein rest often say it doesn't seem to do much to the beer. The beta glucanase enzyme is still active up to 130F, more of that enzyme survives the malting process than protease. If a rest is preformed at 120-130F, it's likely the mash will flow a little better due to the breaking down of beta glucan.

I skip the lower rests because it's mostly a waste of time. I do add some exogenous beta glucanase that can survive to mashout temperatures to help with the mash flow.

that reminds me of my explanation of why i got personally very disappointing head retention and body when i attempted to do a hochkurz fancy pantsy mash following kai's page. you need to choose which malts you do this with carefully. i know what to expect from a single infusion and i find it just so much easier and foolproof than various rests. i guess the point is these rests are not easy to plan out because hitting those exact-enough temps can be a challenge unless youre pretty experienced and have a good system, and the results are going to vary anyway based on the malt.

not saying under the most ideal circumstances it wont make better beer, but this is probably one of the last things in the many steps at crafting an improved version of a beer.

[Village Taphouse]

that reminds me of my explanation of why i got personally very disappointing head retention and body when i attempted to do a hochkurz fancy pantsy mash following kai's page. you need to choose which malts you do this with carefully. i know what to expect from a single infusion and i find it just so much easier and foolproof than various rests. i guess the point is these rests are not easy to plan out because hitting those exact-enough temps can be a challenge unless youre pretty experienced and have a good system, and the results are going to vary anyway based on the malt.

not saying under the most ideal circumstances it wont make better beer, but this is probably one of the last things in the many steps at crafting an improved version of a beer.

I don't have a direct-fired MT so this is all true for me too.  I would have to heat my strike water and then add X amount of it to get to 149° which would be relatively easy to do but then wait 15 minutes and in that time heat the remaining water to around 160 (ish) and add it with the hope that I would end up around 156° for the rest of the mash time.  I could slightly adjust with boiling water or ice but on my old-school system these various rest temps are a challenge which is why I rarely attempt them unless they're simple. 

[redrocker652002]

Reading thru all the posts, this seems a lot more complicated than I thought.  And honestly, with my rudimentary brewing process is probably way over my head to do.  I will keep an eye on it, but this might be a bit advanced for my knowledge.  Rock On!!!!!!

[denny]

Reading thru all the posts, this seems a lot more complicated than I thought.  And honestly, with my rudimentary brewing process is probably way over my head to do.  I will keep an eye on it, but this might be a bit advanced for my knowledge.  Rock On!!!!!!

It's only as complicated as you want to make it.

[MNWayne]

A one step infusion mash will work just fine.

[Megary]

A one step infusion mash will work just fine.

+1

[denny]

A one step infusion mash will work just fine.

+1

+2

[purduekenn]

A one step infusion mash will work just fine.

+1

+2

+3

[erockrph]

You can make a very enjoyable version of the style using simple methods. All the extra details come in to play when you're trying to elevate your beer to the next level. Don't let all that deter you. Dip your toes in, and if you like what you make, then consider taking some steps down the rabbit hole.

[redrocker652002]

You can make a very enjoyable version of the style using simple methods. All the extra details come in to play when you're trying to elevate your beer to the next level. Don't let all that deter you. Dip your toes in, and if you like what you make, then consider taking some steps down the rabbit hole.

Thanks to all who replied.  My brother and I are going to Morebeer today.  He wants to brew tomorrow, so maybe I will get some ingredients and give it a try.  Why not, right?  LOL. 

Anybody have any recipe's that they like or have tried and enjoyed?