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Author Topic: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?  (Read 2838 times)

Offline Skeeter686

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2023, 04:09:14 pm »


+0.75

I've kept all the parts above that I agree with.

I'll never use K-97 again.  ANY other yeast is better than it.



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Offline chinaski

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2023, 05:48:25 pm »
Regarding the "ploy" - I don't know how nefarious they are being.  After all, they still offer a single packet.  I can only imagine what it might be like to be tasked with writing the guidance for pitching rates for yeast- so much depends on so many factors- OG, temp, grist composition, what attenuation % you seek, etc.  From their perspective, if everyone pitches 3 packs then they can't blame the yeast manufacturer for a failed fermentation.  I think they are just keeping it simple.

Offline Red over White

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2023, 06:44:19 pm »
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

Offline Homebrew_kev

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2023, 07:31:04 pm »
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

One of my issues with White Labs is that they give you the bare minimum of cells in homebrew packs - but they give you x1.5 more cells in pro brew packs. wyeast smack packs are like that too, i bet you get even less than white labs - they say you get 100 million cells, but you're actually buying less than that. I'm nitpicking here, they both have great strains. However, Imperial and Omega gives you more cells upfront.

I'm curious... When using a wyeast strain and building up a starter with it - do you wait until the pack inflates before using it in the starter or do you smack it and add it to the starter right away?

What is the "smack" anyways? Is that where the cells are and you break it open so it eats up the wort?

What the Smack?

ps- I do appreciate how starters are good to go when they're pitched. They'll just chow down on the o2 right away.

Offline Richard

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2023, 08:09:52 pm »
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

One of my issues with White Labs is that they give you the bare minimum of cells in homebrew packs - but they give you x1.5 more cells in pro brew packs. wyeast smack packs are like that too, i bet you get even less than white labs - they say you get 100 million cells, but you're actually buying less than that. I'm nitpicking here, they both have great strains. However, Imperial and Omega gives you more cells upfront.

I'm curious... When using a wyeast strain and building up a starter with it - do you wait until the pack inflates before using it in the starter or do you smack it and add it to the starter right away?

What is the "smack" anyways? Is that where the cells are and you break it open so it eats up the wort?

What the Smack?

ps- I do appreciate how starters are good to go when they're pitched. They'll just chow down on the o2 right away.

The Wyeast Smack Pack is a pouch with liquid yeast in it and an inner plastic pouch which is called a "nutrient pack". It is wort, possibly with some extras in it. When you smack open that packet it releases the food into the yeast and they begin to grow. If you are pitching directly you can wait until the pack swells up and you know you are pitching active yeast. If you are making a starter I don't think it matters if you smack open the nutrient pack and wait since you are providing your own source of nutrients.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2023, 08:12:37 pm »
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

wyeast nottingham $4, bry97 $4.99, whitelabs after a recent price increase - averaging about $15 and then i still need to build a starter. so it is a real difference for me, and even in the states i am pretty sure its not just 30 cents difference.

I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

One of my issues with White Labs is that they give you the bare minimum of cells in homebrew packs - but they give you x1.5 more cells in pro brew packs. wyeast smack packs are like that too, i bet you get even less than white labs - they say you get 100 million cells, but you're actually buying less than that. I'm nitpicking here, they both have great strains. However, Imperial and Omega gives you more cells upfront.

ive probably stated this before but one of the main reasons i use dry yeasts when i do is using 2 or 3 packs of bry97 or other yeasts to make a really big beer like an imperial stout around 1.100 because 1. dont have to brew a stepup beer 2. dont have to oxygenate (and invest in o2 tanks) to help the fermentation. i have had really good success with just planning big beers using 2 or 3 packs of yeast and it makes my brewing process much easier.

why i use liquid yeast is because there are more options out there and it may be bias, but i feel like i can get a better tasting beer in the liquid range i am comfortable with (1.04 up to 1.07) without additional oxygenation of wort especially in the styles that arent well represented by dry yeast equivalents.

im currently going to switch my liquid selection to escarpment labs and see how that goes. they, like most newer liquid yeast purveyors promise high >200mil i think cellcounts so i will try not using a starter potentially as well. their price range is still in the reasonable ~$11 range

Offline Red over White

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2023, 12:08:20 am »
I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

One of my issues with White Labs is that they give you the bare minimum of cells in homebrew packs - but they give you x1.5 more cells in pro brew packs. wyeast smack packs are like that too, i bet you get even less than white labs - they say you get 100 million cells, but you're actually buying less than that. I'm nitpicking here, they both have great strains. However, Imperial and Omega gives you more cells upfront.

I'm curious... When using a wyeast strain and building up a starter with it - do you wait until the pack inflates before using it in the starter or do you smack it and add it to the starter right away?

What is the "smack" anyways? Is that where the cells are and you break it open so it eats up the wort?

What the Smack?

ps- I do appreciate how starters are good to go when they're pitched. They'll just chow down on the o2 right away.

Part 2 My original post didn't show up.

When I worked at my LHBS in 1994, I remember explaining smack packs to customers. It is only until recently that some manufacturers have brought big pitches to the market.

I personally don't want to commit to an 8 hour brew day for 10-15 gals of beer with some "magic beans". When I pitch yeast those Lil devils better prove to me that they are chewing!!!

Offline lupulus

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2023, 08:24:46 am »


I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

All excellent points.
But... one can grow a starter with dry yeast and meet all your criteria.

And... if you get your yeast for 30c per 5g of beer produced, please share your supplier.

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Offline Red over White

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2023, 10:51:58 am »


I take a very different view about dry yeast, subsequent use and pitch rate vs the moderator here. Growing new daughter cells and providing them with the sterols and unsaturated fatty acids goferm protect evolution that Chris White stresses, is important for premium results to me. The more fresh cells grown along with the building blocks they need in the wort they will ferment, trumps trying to use less, potentially impaired rehydated cells to slowly do the job. These building blocks are not just for wine as Chris states, they are critical to all yeast that divide to be in peak performance to get to work properly. This adds 30 cents per five gallons of beer produced, it's kinda like throwing a deck chair off The Queen Mary as far as cost to any home brewer.

All excellent points.
But... one can grow a starter with dry yeast and meet all your criteria.

And... if you get your yeast for 30c per 5g of beer produced, please share your supplier.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)

Making a traditional starter with dry yeast will need oxygen in the fermenter, a vitality starter doesn't need oxygen at all.

I should have been clearer about that. Goferm protect evolution costs about 30 cents per 5 gals to use and I use it in fresh frozen wort that I boil again when I make a vitality starter. I pay the same as everyone for yeast and the new white labs format is going to be about $15 at my LHBS.


Offline fredthecat

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Re: Dry yeast marketing ploy or not?
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2023, 05:45:01 pm »


 I pay the same as everyone for yeast and the new white labs format is going to be about $15 at my LHBS.

interesting to note that this is going to be their thing going forward - "hey we can compete with the ~200 million cellcount thing that everyone else is doing... but we're going to cost a lot more." lol. what a shame. im simply buying from a regional liquid yeast supplier next brewbuy.