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Author Topic: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation  (Read 1241 times)

Offline saaz amore

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co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« on: July 26, 2023, 07:35:16 pm »
I've used T-58 for my last two Weizens and have been very pleased with the results. The only thing I'd like to improve on is the attenuation. The last batch finished at 69%/1.016, and I'd like to get it down to 1.010-1.012.

For my next batch, I'm going to either use a lot more dextrose (last batch had 2.2%) or try co-pitching. I'm thinking of trying BRY-97 because of its neutrality and attenuation, but also its lag time. T-58 is a quick worker, and I'm hoping that I'll get enough esters out of the T-58 within the first 48 hours or so before the BRY-97 kicks in. US-05 would also be an option.

If I do this, should I use the standard pitch rate for both yeasts (not combined) - .5g/L? That would amount to 1 sachet per 19L or so. I'd end up using twice the amount, but both yeasts are pretty inexpensive, so I don't mind.

Or should I try increasing the dextrose to 7-8% on my next batch and stick with the T-58 only?

Offline lupulus

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2023, 07:49:17 pm »
Attenuation is mash-related.
Yeast may help depending on maltotriose fermentation ability.
Learn to mash for attenuation.

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Offline saaz amore

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2023, 07:56:02 pm »
I mashed the last batch at 45C for 20 minutes, then 63C (145F) for 70 minutes. I don't really want to mash any lower than 63C. What else can I do in the mash to improve attenuation?

Online erockrph

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2023, 08:47:45 pm »
T-58 doesn't ferment maltotriose, so it is a good candidate for a co-pitch. BRY-97 would be a good choice for all the reasons you mention.

From the mash side, you could hold the mash longer at 145 if you wanted to try to increase attentuation. You could also go a couple of degrees lower in hopes of some increased limit dextrinase activity. But my money is on the co-pitch being the best bang for your buck on this one.
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Offline saaz amore

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2023, 09:19:11 pm »
T-58 doesn't ferment maltotriose, so it is a good candidate for a co-pitch. BRY-97 would be a good choice for all the reasons you mention.

Thanks. What would you recommend in terms of pitch rate for the BRY-97?

Online erockrph

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2023, 10:00:01 pm »
T-58 doesn't ferment maltotriose, so it is a good candidate for a co-pitch. BRY-97 would be a good choice for all the reasons you mention.

Thanks. What would you recommend in terms of pitch rate for the BRY-97?
You might have to dial it in, but when I copitch it with Windsor, I just split it 50-50. I'd start there or maybe 2/3 T-58 and 1/3 BRY-97. From there, adjust based on attentuation and/or flavor as needed.
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Offline saaz amore

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2023, 12:53:52 am »
Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

FWIW, the Fermentis Tips & Tricks pdf (https://fermentis.com/en/knowledge-center/beer-tips-tricks/) says that T-58 ferments some maltotriose. More than S-33, but not as much as S-04.

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2023, 08:54:11 am »
I say go for dextrose
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2023, 11:32:24 am »
Have you tried lowering your mash temp?  I’ve had pretty descent luck getting lower FG by mashing at 148°F (vs 152°F). 

Offline saaz amore

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2023, 04:15:16 pm »
Have you tried lowering your mash temp?  I’ve had pretty descent luck getting lower FG by mashing at 148°F (vs 152°F). 

That's the first thing I would've tried, but I mashed at 63C/145F and am afraid to go lower.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2023, 04:46:33 pm »

Offline fredthecat

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2023, 06:21:38 pm »
add dextrose, it is not going to be a problem at all. its just about calculating how much to use to reach desired FG

Offline saaz amore

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2023, 12:08:21 am »
My only concern about dextrose is ester overload. T-58 already delivers a lot of isoamyl acetate, and I worry that too much dextrose might take it into medicinal territory.

I went with a T-58/BRY-97 co-pitch on my current batch, and we'll see how that turns out. Unfortunately, I came down with covid and have no sense of smell at the moment, so I'm going to leave it in the fermenter for the time being. I'll update when I have some results to report.


Online denny

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2023, 08:56:55 am »
My only concern about dextrose is ester overload. T-58 already delivers a lot of isoamyl acetate, and I worry that too much dextrose might take it into medicinal territory.

I went with a T-58/BRY-97 co-pitch on my current batch, and we'll see how that turns out. Unfortunately, I came down with covid and have no sense of smell at the moment, so I'm going to leave it in the fermenter for the time being. I'll update when I have some results to report.

Have you ever gotten esters from dextrose? I haven't.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: co-pitching vs. dextrose for more attenuation
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2023, 04:00:24 pm »
My only concern about dextrose is ester overload. T-58 already delivers a lot of isoamyl acetate, and I worry that too much dextrose might take it into medicinal territory.

I went with a T-58/BRY-97 co-pitch on my current batch, and we'll see how that turns out. Unfortunately, I came down with covid and have no sense of smell at the moment, so I'm going to leave it in the fermenter for the time being. I'll update when I have some results to report.

this is a really interesting thing, since ive seen that too that glucose (dextrose) increases isoamyl acetate, and was thinking that - despite it going against the mindless reinheitsgebot concept (homebrewers who care about this in 2023 - lollll) - it could be a great way to increase banana in weisse beers.

and lol no more importantly "too much dextrose" into medicinal - absolutely not in any reasonable quantity. i know people here and major brewers use up to 20% dextrose/sucrose/etc simple sugars confirmed, likely higher numbers i cant say ive heard. i regularly use 10%, i think highest probably between 12 to 15% and there is zero medicinal/bandaid phenols. creating this high alcohol beer can result in ethanol/"hot" tastes in some cases for periods of time after production, but these are in 10% ABV plus beers.

adding a small amount of dextrose in what sounds like a 5-6% ABV beer will not even be noticeable