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Author Topic: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners  (Read 1146 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2023, 08:44:04 am »
Not much difference between Ales and Lagers except that most lager strains produce diacetyl.

Make your beer, and ferment at the recommended temperature - but be sure to increase the temp by about 5 or 8 degrees at the tail end of fermentation. Typically, I let mine ferment for about a week and a half - bump up the temp - and let it go for at least a week. Since we are talking about homebrew, give it 2 weeks.

Crash it as cold as you can without letting it freeze. Let the yeast drop out, and keg it. More yeast will drop out in the keg, but you can carbonate it. In about 4 or 5 more weeks, it should be at its peak.

Most critical part is giving it a diacetyl rest. You can explore pH, water chemistry, and pure o2 to improve your process (but they all require more equipment).

since you're fermenting cold - more yeast is helpful. If you can't do a yeast starter, i'd recomend 2 or 3 dry yeast packs.

Lager and Ale strains both produce the diacetyl precursor
 When the precursor oxidizes outside the yeast cell it becomes diacetyl. The yeast can then absorb the diacetyl and reduce it to a compound that is not offensive. The ale yeast reabsorb faster due to more activity at higher ale temperatures.
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Offline denny

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2023, 08:46:54 am »
You can also use the "Fast Lager" process described here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/seminar/fast-lager-yeast-fermentations/

This process starts cold, then progressively increases the temperature to speed the process along.

In no way am I trying to be an antagonist but why does anyone need to speed the process along? Unless of course one is a commercial brewer.

Why not? There's more than one way to brew.
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Offline Richard

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2023, 09:00:55 am »
You can also use the "Fast Lager" process described here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/seminar/fast-lager-yeast-fermentations/

This process starts cold, then progressively increases the temperature to speed the process along.

In no way am I trying to be an antagonist but why does anyone need to speed the process along? Unless of course one is a commercial brewer.
I have limited space. I can only ferment one batch at a time and can only store one batch at a time in kegs. If it takes me 3 months to make a batch then I can only brew 4 times a year. If I can turn it around in 1 month, then I can brew 12 times a year.
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Offline HopDen

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2023, 09:39:04 am »
You can also use the "Fast Lager" process described here: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/seminar/fast-lager-yeast-fermentations/

This process starts cold, then progressively increases the temperature to speed the process along.

In no way am I trying to be an antagonist but why does anyone need to speed the process along? Unless of course one is a commercial brewer.
I have limited space. I can only ferment one batch at a time and can only store one batch at a time in kegs. If it takes me 3 months to make a batch then I can only brew 4 times a year. If I can turn it around in 1 month, then I can brew 12 times a year.

Welp, that is a very good reason and I stand corrected!! LOL! Cheers!

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2023, 10:14:10 am »
Lager and Ale strains both produce the diacetyl precursor
 When the precursor oxidizes outside the yeast cell it becomes diacetyl. The yeast can then absorb the diacetyl and reduce it to a compound that is not offensive. The ale yeast reabsorb faster due to more activity at higher ale temperatures.
For sure.  Trying brewing an English ale with S-04.  Whoo boy.  You have to be on your toes with many English strains .. bring the temp up near the end of fermentation and if possible, sample from the fermenter prior to chilling. 

Another positive on the lagers:  All yeast strains have their character and when you brew mostly ales and experience what they have to offer, you can look forward to all the amazing characteristics of lager yeast strains.  2308, 2124, Omega Bayern, White Labs 940 .. so many flavors from so many varied lager strains.  It's what drives me to continue making lager beer.  Cheers Beerheads. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline MNWayne

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2023, 11:14:14 am »
I pitch approx 3 packs of yeast in my lagers. Start at 55F, when OG reaches about half way to finished I let temp slowly increase to 65-68F until finished, cold crash, hold cold for 3 days then transfer to keg for lagering. My lagers kind of sucked until I started paying attention to pH and water chemistry. I found gypsum was needed.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2023, 01:25:03 pm »
My lagers, and heck, my ales too, are better when I am patient enough to allow the yeast to do its job.  Simple as that.  Even when fermentation seems to be complete... give it more time because maybe it isn't.  The diacetyl and sulfur need more time to be reabsorbed by the yeast, and flavors in general just seem to meld and mellow better given an extra 3-7 days after the airlock is totally done bubbling.  Or even longer doesn't hurt anything and only helps.  Do NOT be concerned about autolysis in the primary -- this concern is way overblown and takes many MONTHS to take effect, IF it happens at all.
Dave

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Offline redrocker652002

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2023, 09:13:53 am »
Great stuff guys, thank you for all the responses.  So, in trying to sort thru it all, my thoughts are as follows:  Brew day is as normal, mash is at about 146 for 90 mins (this is new to me as well, so any input there is welcomed), sparge to get about 7.5 to 8 gallons of wort (checking the gravity to make sure I am in the ballpark of 1.045 or so), then boil for about 90 minutes and use the hop schedule on the recipe.  Post boil gravity should be in the area of 1.050.   Bring the wort down to about 55 degrees or so and pitch two packs of yeast.  Give the bucket a shake to get the yeast mixed in a bit and in the fermenting fridge it goes at about 53 to 54 degrees.  Checking gravity after about a week and see where we are.  FG on the recipe says it should be at about 1.010.  Once I am close, raise the temp on the fridge to about 55 or so and let stand for 2 or 3 days.  After that, drop the temp to 35 and wait another few days.  After that, move to a keg using gravity closed transfer and put the keg back in the fridge at 35 degrees and let stand for at least 3 weeks.  Does that sound about right?  I am excited to give this a try and add another style to my arsenal so to speak.  LOL 

Offline denny

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2023, 10:51:52 am »
No point in raising from 53-54 to 55.
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Offline redrocker652002

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2023, 11:42:56 am »
No point in raising from 53-54 to 55.

Oops, good catch   I mistyped.  I meant to type 60.  Kinda just taking all the input and coming up with a procedure. 

Offline denny

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2023, 02:03:43 pm »
No point in raising from 53-54 to 55.

Oops, good catch   I mistyped.  I meant to type 60.  Kinda just taking all the input and coming up with a procedure.

In that case, I'd go 65-70
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2023, 05:58:57 pm »
No point in raising from 53-54 to 55.

Oops, good catch   I mistyped.  I meant to type 60.  Kinda just taking all the input and coming up with a procedure.

In that case, I'd go 65-70

I agree, in the latter part of fermentation it doesn't hurt to bring up to about room temperature.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: New to me, questions regarding Lagers and Pilsners
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2023, 08:48:48 am »
No point in raising from 53-54 to 55.

Oops, good catch   I mistyped.  I meant to type 60.  Kinda just taking all the input and coming up with a procedure.

In that case, I'd go 65-70

I agree, in the latter part of fermentation it doesn't hurt to bring up to about room temperature.

Or higher
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell