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Author Topic: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.  (Read 1080 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2023, 10:50:05 am »
From Chimay:

Quote
It’s exactly the same recipe as our Grande Réserve or Blue, except that instead of going to bottle after yeast and sugar addition, beer goes to the barrels for a second fermentation.

This fermentation within the barrels is really slow (1 to 1,5 month) because the temperature is low.

Thanks to this, aromas coming from the yeast are keeped within the beer.

After more than 5 months within barrels, each barrel is tasted in order to avoid undesired contaminations (Brett, acetic or lactic) before to transfer the beer within a maturation tank at 0°C during 15 days.

The following step is the centrifugation, sugar addition and yeast addition before the bottling and the third fermentation.
That is good to know! Helpful information. I wonder if the yeast for the 2nd and 3rd fermentations is the same as primary? Or at least the 2nd one. It’s possible that the yeast for the bottle fermentation is neutral but could very well be a singular strain across all 3 fermentations.

And then of course comes the question of What type of fermentable is used in the second fermentation?

Thanks for contacting them!!
Cheers!


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They use the fermentation strain all the way through, according to BLAM. They have so much of it that it doesn't make sense to use another one.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2023, 11:16:11 am »
From Chimay:

Quote
It’s exactly the same recipe as our Grande Réserve or Blue, except that instead of going to bottle after yeast and sugar addition, beer goes to the barrels for a second fermentation.

This fermentation within the barrels is really slow (1 to 1,5 month) because the temperature is low.

Thanks to this, aromas coming from the yeast are keeped within the beer.

After more than 5 months within barrels, each barrel is tasted in order to avoid undesired contaminations (Brett, acetic or lactic) before to transfer the beer within a maturation tank at 0°C during 15 days.

The following step is the centrifugation, sugar addition and yeast addition before the bottling and the third fermentation.

I don't interpret this to mean there is a sugar addition in the barrels, just that they are racking into the barrels before fermentation is complete. If they say it is the same recipe, then adding an additional round of sugar somewhere in the process wouldn't be the same recipe.
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Offline HopDen

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2023, 12:53:23 pm »
From Chimay:

Quote
It’s exactly the same recipe as our Grande Réserve or Blue, except that instead of going to bottle after yeast and sugar addition, beer goes to the barrels for a second fermentation.

This fermentation within the barrels is really slow (1 to 1,5 month) because the temperature is low.

Thanks to this, aromas coming from the yeast are keeped within the beer.

After more than 5 months within barrels, each barrel is tasted in order to avoid undesired contaminations (Brett, acetic or lactic) before to transfer the beer within a maturation tank at 0°C during 15 days.

The following step is the centrifugation, sugar addition and yeast addition before the bottling and the third fermentation.
That is good to know! Helpful information. I wonder if the yeast for the 2nd and 3rd fermentations is the same as primary? Or at least the 2nd one. It’s possible that the yeast for the bottle fermentation is neutral but could very well be a singular strain across all 3 fermentations.

And then of course comes the question of What type of fermentable is used in the second fermentation?

Thanks for contacting them!!
Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They use the fermentation strain all the way through, according to BLAM. They have so much of it that it doesn't make sense to use another one.
Good point.


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Offline Drewch

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2023, 01:21:27 pm »
I don't interpret this to mean there is a sugar addition in the barrels, just that they are racking into the barrels before fermentation is complete. If they say it is the same recipe, then adding an additional round of sugar somewhere in the process wouldn't be the same recipe.

That's how I took it, too. Instead of getting fresh yeast and priming sugar coming out of primary, it goes into barrels for 5 months ... and then gets fresh yeast and priming sugar. (After getting centrifuged, but I don't know anyone who centrifuges at the homebrew scale.)
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Offline denny

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2023, 02:01:36 pm »
From Chimay:

Quote
It’s exactly the same recipe as our Grande Réserve or Blue, except that instead of going to bottle after yeast and sugar addition, beer goes to the barrels for a second fermentation.

This fermentation within the barrels is really slow (1 to 1,5 month) because the temperature is low.

Thanks to this, aromas coming from the yeast are keeped within the beer.

After more than 5 months within barrels, each barrel is tasted in order to avoid undesired contaminations (Brett, acetic or lactic) before to transfer the beer within a maturation tank at 0°C during 15 days.

The following step is the centrifugation, sugar addition and yeast addition before the bottling and the third fermentation.

I don't interpret this to mean there is a sugar addition in the barrels, just that they are racking into the barrels before fermentation is complete. If they say it is the same recipe, then adding an additional round of sugar somewhere in the process wouldn't be the same recipe.

Agreed.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HopDen

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2023, 02:14:44 pm »
From Chimay:

Quote
It’s exactly the same recipe as our Grande Réserve or Blue, except that instead of going to bottle after yeast and sugar addition, beer goes to the barrels for a second fermentation.

This fermentation within the barrels is really slow (1 to 1,5 month) because the temperature is low.

Thanks to this, aromas coming from the yeast are keeped within the beer.

After more than 5 months within barrels, each barrel is tasted in order to avoid undesired contaminations (Brett, acetic or lactic) before to transfer the beer within a maturation tank at 0°C during 15 days.

The following step is the centrifugation, sugar addition and yeast addition before the bottling and the third fermentation.

I don't interpret this to mean there is a sugar addition in the barrels, just that they are racking into the barrels before fermentation is complete. If they say it is the same recipe, then adding an additional round of sugar somewhere in the process wouldn't be the same recipe.

Agreed.
Idk how beer marketing works but this post makes me think it is in fact a second fermentation not a secondary, which would only be 1 fermentation plus the bottle ferment which would only be 2 fermentations. It states triple fermentation.


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Offline denny

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2023, 04:05:01 pm »
The problem is that you're expecting them to fit your definitions. Commercial  brewers, especially Belgian, have their own way of looking at things that may not necessarily fit what we think.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2023, 06:12:15 am »
The problem is that you're expecting them to fit your definitions. Commercial  brewers, especially Belgian, have their own way of looking at things that may not necessarily fit what we think.

I'll just add a little ancient craft brewing history.

When I started brewing 26 years ago, all the recipes called for moving your beer into a secondary fermentor. At the time, I assumed some kind of fermentation was always taking place when it was really only acting as a clearing tank and getting the wort off the trub faster.

That factoid only shows that words are tricky and advertisers use that trickiness to sell beer.
IMHO they are fermenting, barrel aging, and bottle conditioning. Triple fermented sounds way cooler though.

Paul
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2023, 06:58:31 am »
I’m not sure why triple fermentation is so controversial here.

If they say triple fermentation - with a secondary fermentation in a cask - why not take their word for it?

Instead of trying to shoot holes in the technique because you never heard of it, or you don’t think their terminology is correct causing the OP to defend themself, why not say:

What a special, new, exciting way to develop depth and flavor. That’s pretty cool!

Offline HopDen

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2023, 07:10:43 am »
I’m not sure why triple fermentation is so controversial here.

If they say triple fermentation - with a secondary fermentation in a cask - why not take their word for it?

Instead of trying to shoot holes in the technique because you never heard of it, or you don’t think their terminology is correct causing the OP to defend themself, why not say:

What a special, new, exciting way to develop depth and flavor. That’s pretty cool!

Exactly! I sent an email to Chimay this morning. Hopefully they can answer my questions. I didn't make the original post to debate or argue semantics. I am on a quest of knowledge and understanding to hopefully create a beer that is a worthy homage.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2023, 07:58:27 am »
I’m not sure why triple fermentation is so controversial here.

If they say triple fermentation - with a secondary fermentation in a cask - why not take their word for it?

Instead of trying to shoot holes in the technique because you never heard of it, or you don’t think their terminology is correct causing the OP to defend themself, why not say:

What a special, new, exciting way to develop depth and flavor. That’s pretty cool!

Exactly! I sent an email to Chimay this morning. Hopefully they can answer my questions. I didn't make the original post to debate or argue semantics. I am on a quest of knowledge and understanding to hopefully create a beer that is a worthy homage.

Sorry, I meant no offense and didn't intend to argue with anyone.

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Triple (3) Times Fermentation.
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2023, 11:01:35 am »
I’m not sure why triple fermentation is so controversial here.

If they say triple fermentation - with a secondary fermentation in a cask - why not take their word for it?

Instead of trying to shoot holes in the technique because you never heard of it, or you don’t think their terminology is correct causing the OP to defend themself, why not say:

What a special, new, exciting way to develop depth and flavor. That’s pretty cool!

I don't think there's anything controversial here. The only reason this became a debate was because he said he wanted to clone the beer and process and we've been discussing the process involved. The term "secondary fermentation" is used at times to describe a second addition of fermentables as well as simply moving a beer to a secondary vessel to reach final gravity. It's not clear in their marketing which is true.
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