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Author Topic: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer  (Read 455 times)

Online fredthecat

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I would imagine magnum to reach 70 and then a bunch of noble hops at 5 mins to whirlpool?

anyone have any thoughts on this, this sounds straight up wimpy but i just hate most IPA's yucky rough cohumulone hops. this is what we get in canada, we get extremely few american IPAs so all this crap tastes like its made with leftover crop chinook, etc. just super harsh and blech

Offline redrocker652002

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2024, 12:27:17 am »
I am going to try this in the next week or two. It takes a double IPA and brings it down to APA numbers, but the IBU still sits a bit higher at 61.  Looked interesting and I have all the hops so I thought, why not. 

https://share.brewfather.app/thByXAwkiStCmL

Offline Kevin

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2024, 08:09:02 am »
Have you read any of Ron Pattinson's writings? His recipes are taken from brewery logs that date back right to the beginning of IPA. Most use Cluster as the bittering hops and then Golding or Fuggle for the others. To my taste buds they offer a nice bittering but its rounded and not sharp. Ron's blog is Shut Up About Barclay Perkins: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/
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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2024, 09:08:16 am »
Cohumulone being "yucky rough" was disproven years ago. If you experience those, it's from something else.
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Online fredthecat

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2024, 11:47:47 am »
I am going to try this in the next week or two. It takes a double IPA and brings it down to APA numbers, but the IBU still sits a bit higher at 61.  Looked interesting and I have all the hops so I thought, why not. 

https://share.brewfather.app/thByXAwkiStCmL

what im thinking is something like pilsner malt and 5% sucrose to get to a 1.060 OG with 55 IBU of magnum and an oz of cascade at 20mins and 0min. not massive hop flavour but a clean and simple, powerful and pleasant hop bitterness

Have you read any of Ron Pattinson's writings? His recipes are taken from brewery logs that date back right to the beginning of IPA. Most use Cluster as the bittering hops and then Golding or Fuggle for the others. To my taste buds they offer a nice bittering but its rounded and not sharp. Ron's blog is Shut Up About Barclay Perkins: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

yes, from my general understanding he divides them between "new york", "pacific", "united states" hops. so youre suggesting cluster? i am almost in fact aiming for a sharp perception, so also wondered about sulfate level suggestions. i want it sharp and clean and very bitter.


Cohumulone being "yucky rough" was disproven years ago. If you experience those, it's from something else.

i wrote this in the middle of drinking it last night but in many basic or cheap IPAs i get a sorta husky, scratchy, sour perception of hops, unpleasant hoppy feel and taste. i find i for sure get it in beers that definitely have a very high bitterness but are off-brand or noname brand IPAs. hope that clears things up. what do you think this is from?

Offline BrewBama

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full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2024, 12:27:49 pm »
I like the idea of ~33-50% or so of the IBU(s) of Magnum or Warrior, maybe Nugget at the top of the boil, then load up my character hops that will define the beer ~20 min and later.

However, I’d swap out the Cascade in the boil because of the study Yakima Chief did on survivables.  Cascade has low soluble compounds that can survive heat and fermentation.  Just food for thought.  Of course, I often break my own rules.

I might be sulfate sensitive or something. I’ve found I prefer a bit less sulfate and a bit more chloride to soften the finish in my bitter beers. It makes me want another sip vs the harness that drives me away.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2024, 12:37:04 pm by BrewBama »

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2024, 12:35:39 pm »
I am going to try this in the next week or two. It takes a double IPA and brings it down to APA numbers, but the IBU still sits a bit higher at 61.  Looked interesting and I have all the hops so I thought, why not. 

https://share.brewfather.app/thByXAwkiStCmL

what im thinking is something like pilsner malt and 5% sucrose to get to a 1.060 OG with 55 IBU of magnum and an oz of cascade at 20mins and 0min. not massive hop flavour but a clean and simple, powerful and pleasant hop bitterness

Have you read any of Ron Pattinson's writings? His recipes are taken from brewery logs that date back right to the beginning of IPA. Most use Cluster as the bittering hops and then Golding or Fuggle for the others. To my taste buds they offer a nice bittering but its rounded and not sharp. Ron's blog is Shut Up About Barclay Perkins: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

yes, from my general understanding he divides them between "new york", "pacific", "united states" hops. so youre suggesting cluster? i am almost in fact aiming for a sharp perception, so also wondered about sulfate level suggestions. i want it sharp and clean and very bitter.


Cohumulone being "yucky rough" was disproven years ago. If you experience those, it's from something else.

i wrote this in the middle of drinking it last night but in many basic or cheap IPAs i get a sorta husky, scratchy, sour perception of hops, unpleasant hoppy feel and taste. i find i for sure get it in beers that definitely have a very high bitterness but are off-brand or noname brand IPAs. hope that clears things up. what do you think this is from?

It could be from so many things I hesitate to guess unless I can taste the beer.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2024, 02:38:53 pm »
i wrote this in the middle of drinking it last night but in many basic or cheap IPAs i get a sorta husky, scratchy, sour perception of hops, unpleasant hoppy feel and taste. i find i for sure get it in beers that definitely have a very high bitterness but are off-brand or noname brand IPAs. hope that clears things up. what do you think this is from?

Can you name hoppy beers you like? That might steer you in the right direction.
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Online fredthecat

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2024, 04:07:31 pm »
i wrote this in the middle of drinking it last night but in many basic or cheap IPAs i get a sorta husky, scratchy, sour perception of hops, unpleasant hoppy feel and taste. i find i for sure get it in beers that definitely have a very high bitterness but are off-brand or noname brand IPAs. hope that clears things up. what do you think this is from?

Can you name hoppy beers you like? That might steer you in the right direction.

https://amsterdambeer.com/products/boneshaker-ipa-473ml-can -  was the one i just had with a harshness

i have a very different selection than you but for example a beer by that same brewing company - who i do think are pretty competent overall, they make clean and consistent tasting products (Amsterdam brewing) - amsterdam space invaders is probably the single canadian IPA i really like. it's dialed back a bit but still probably 50IBU, but just a very different taste, nice and clear, pale and simple maltbill.

 but by this bitter stuff i really mean a pilsner style bitterness and hopping amped up with increased gravity as well. its been so long since having access to american IPAs i honestly cant think of one. but 10, 12 years ago i would greatly and thoroughly enjoy all the major offerings of IPA by rogue, new belgium, stone, etc. ive gotten lagunitas IPA a few times when i see it around and it has none of that harshness in it.


So, please i guess advice if you have any on a high IBU with maximum smoothness while still having high perceptable bitterness. obviously sulfate will be a factor, and probably reducing crystal style malts etc




Offline tommymorris

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2024, 07:27:27 pm »
i wrote this in the middle of drinking it last night but in many basic or cheap IPAs i get a sorta husky, scratchy, sour perception of hops, unpleasant hoppy feel and taste. i find i for sure get it in beers that definitely have a very high bitterness but are off-brand or noname brand IPAs. hope that clears things up. what do you think this is from?

Can you name hoppy beers you like? That might steer you in the right direction.

https://amsterdambeer.com/products/boneshaker-ipa-473ml-can -  was the one i just had with a harshness

i have a very different selection than you but for example a beer by that same brewing company - who i do think are pretty competent overall, they make clean and consistent tasting products (Amsterdam brewing) - amsterdam space invaders is probably the single canadian IPA i really like. it's dialed back a bit but still probably 50IBU, but just a very different taste, nice and clear, pale and simple maltbill.

 but by this bitter stuff i really mean a pilsner style bitterness and hopping amped up with increased gravity as well. its been so long since having access to american IPAs i honestly cant think of one. but 10, 12 years ago i would greatly and thoroughly enjoy all the major offerings of IPA by rogue, new belgium, stone, etc. ive gotten lagunitas IPA a few times when i see it around and it has none of that harshness in it.


So, please i guess advice if you have any on a high IBU with maximum smoothness while still having high perceptable bitterness. obviously sulfate will be a factor, and probably reducing crystal style malts etc
I certainly don’t have all the answers but boneshaker seems much darker than space invaders. If that darkness comes from increased caramel malts those are gonna drown the good hop flavors.

My IPA grain bill of late is stolen from a recent NHC Gold medal winner. It is 2-row pale, wheat, and Carapils.

Denny’s Denny Kong WCIPA is Pilsner, Vienna, and table sugar.

You don’t have to get rid of the caramel all together. But I think less is more for IPAs.

Offline erockrph

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2024, 09:08:21 am »
To me, the cleanest hop bitterness comes from using extract like Hop Shot, although I suspect that it actually is an issue with utilization (i.e., you're extracting less IBU's than predicted) rather than "cleanness" per se.

The next closest thing in my experience is to skip the bittering addition altogether, and do a long hot whirlpool (60-90 minutes at 195F) with all your boil hops. I actually sent a sample out for analysis once from a beer I brewed this way. It tested as 98 IBU, but tasted closer to 60 IBU to my palate. Just enough bite for balance, but not enamel-stripping abrasive in any way.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2024, 01:06:33 pm »
https://amsterdambeer.com/products/boneshaker-ipa-473ml-can -  was the one i just had with a harshness

i have a very different selection than you but for example a beer by that same brewing company - who i do think are pretty competent overall, they make clean and consistent tasting products (Amsterdam brewing) - amsterdam space invaders is probably the single canadian IPA i really like. it's dialed back a bit but still probably 50IBU, but just a very different taste, nice and clear, pale and simple maltbill.

 but by this bitter stuff i really mean a pilsner style bitterness and hopping amped up with increased gravity as well. its been so long since having access to american IPAs i honestly cant think of one. but 10, 12 years ago i would greatly and thoroughly enjoy all the major offerings of IPA by rogue, new belgium, stone, etc. ive gotten lagunitas IPA a few times when i see it around and it has none of that harshness in it.


So, please i guess advice if you have any on a high IBU with maximum smoothness while still having high perceptable bitterness. obviously sulfate will be a factor, and probably reducing crystal style malts etc

From what you describe, I'd look at older IPA recipes as a starting point for your recipe. Those older IPAs were built around bittersweet as a flavor profile rather than the latter transition to focusing on hops as the sole focus of the beer. They tended to deploy a fair amount of crystal malt that took some of the edge off the hops. In the first half of the 2010s we saw IPAs leaning out with less crystal malt, pilsner malt mixed into the base and rising IBUs and ABV. That sounds like exactly what you don't like.

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Online fredthecat

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2024, 03:19:22 pm »


I certainly don’t have all the answers but boneshaker seems much darker than space invaders. If that darkness comes from increased caramel malts those are gonna drown the good hop flavors.

My IPA grain bill of late is stolen from a recent NHC Gold medal winner. It is 2-row pale, wheat, and Carapils.

Denny’s Denny Kong WCIPA is Pilsner, Vienna, and table sugar.

You don’t have to get rid of the caramel all together. But I think less is more for IPAs.

thats the kind of grist i mean, pale and some sucrose

To me, the cleanest hop bitterness comes from using extract like Hop Shot, although I suspect that it actually is an issue with utilization (i.e., you're extracting less IBU's than predicted) rather than "cleanness" per se.

The next closest thing in my experience is to skip the bittering addition altogether, and do a long hot whirlpool (60-90 minutes at 195F) with all your boil hops. I actually sent a sample out for analysis once from a beer I brewed this way. It tested as 98 IBU, but tasted closer to 60 IBU to my palate. Just enough bite for balance, but not enamel-stripping abrasive in any way.

good method points, thanks. i dont have access to hop extract/shot, so im thinking ill get magnum. i happen to have warrior on hand but its marked for another recipe


From what you describe, I'd look at older IPA recipes as a starting point for your recipe. Those older IPAs were built around bittersweet as a flavor profile rather than the latter transition to focusing on hops as the sole focus of the beer. They tended to deploy a fair amount of crystal malt that took some of the edge off the hops. In the first half of the 2010s we saw IPAs leaning out with less crystal malt, pilsner malt mixed into the base and rising IBUs and ABV. That sounds like exactly what you don't like.

i dont want those, just mentioning that is my point of reference re: IPAs other than random contemporary IPAs i've had.


Offline goose

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Re: full recipe thoughts on making a super clean(?) over 70IBU pale beer
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2024, 09:00:24 am »
https://amsterdambeer.com/products/boneshaker-ipa-473ml-can -  was the one i just had with a harshness

i have a very different selection than you but for example a beer by that same brewing company - who i do think are pretty competent overall, they make clean and consistent tasting products (Amsterdam brewing) - amsterdam space invaders is probably the single canadian IPA i really like. it's dialed back a bit but still probably 50IBU, but just a very different taste, nice and clear, pale and simple maltbill.

 but by this bitter stuff i really mean a pilsner style bitterness and hopping amped up with increased gravity as well. its been so long since having access to american IPAs i honestly cant think of one. but 10, 12 years ago i would greatly and thoroughly enjoy all the major offerings of IPA by rogue, new belgium, stone, etc. ive gotten lagunitas IPA a few times when i see it around and it has none of that harshness in it.


So, please i guess advice if you have any on a high IBU with maximum smoothness while still having high perceptable bitterness. obviously sulfate will be a factor, and probably reducing crystal style malts etc

From what you describe, I'd look at older IPA recipes as a starting point for your recipe. Those older IPAs were built around bittersweet as a flavor profile rather than the latter transition to focusing on hops as the sole focus of the beer. They tended to deploy a fair amount of crystal malt that took some of the edge off the hops. In the first half of the 2010s we saw IPAs leaning out with less crystal malt, pilsner malt mixed into the base and rising IBUs and ABV. That sounds like exactly what you don't like.


I always use about 8% crystal malt in my IPA's, normally 20L crystal.  My hop additions usually yield about 52 IBU's and it seems to work well.  Although I don't have it in front or me, I think my Sulfate/Chloride ratio is around 3:1 and the beer does not seem harsh.
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