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Author Topic: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA  (Read 1522 times)

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2023, 11:00:36 am »
I would tend to agree on the dumping, a painful as that can be.  Alternatively, you might consider blending...though that may not result in a drinkable beer, either.  If blending, try on the scale of a pint or so to find the ratio that you enjoy.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2023, 11:03:56 am »
What about blending with carbonated water when you pour a bottle? It will be weaker but also drier.

Online reverseapachemaster

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2023, 03:45:33 pm »
The Duvel strain (570) is notorious for stalling in the low twenties. If you search Duvel yeast stalling, you'll find it discussed in every homebrewing forum.

An option would be to warm it up to the upper 70s and give the keg a good shake, but I am not so sure you have enough yeast in the keg to get the job done without waiting weeks, maybe months.

You can pitch a different strain into the beer. Offgas the CO2, move the keg somewhere it is within the yeast's temperature range, hook up a blow off and direct pitch the yeast, only. After fermentation give it a cold crash and hook it up at serving pressure to pull a pint of trub. Then carb it back up. I wouldn't use wine yeast for this. A different Belgian strain would be my choice--I'd suggest the highly reliable westmalle strain--but other beer strains would work.
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Offline HopDen

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2023, 04:34:59 pm »
Frankly, I would either drink it as is or dump it, then brew another one. Trying a major "fix" like that has seldom worked out well for me. It may be easier and more successful to rebrew.

I couldn't dump it. It's "drinkable" as is but just too cloying to have more that 1 or 2. As I stated above, I was pouring a 50/50 blend of a pilz and this BGSA at the tap and it was fine, dried it out a bit.  So definitely not a dumper. I am just looking for options to save it but also doing an experiment on "fixing" it. If by whatever means I chose to rectify it, it doesn't work to my liking then it is a candidate for the drain.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2023, 04:59:41 pm »
Frankly, I would either drink it as is or dump it, then brew another one. Trying a major "fix" like that has seldom worked out well for me. It may be easier and more successful to rebrew.

I would tend to agree on the dumping, a painful as that can be.  Alternatively, you might consider blending...though that may not result in a drinkable beer, either.  If blending, try on the scale of a pint or so to find the ratio that you enjoy.

3rd for dumping. an underattenuated IPA can balance itself out (depending on the degree of underattenuation) with bitterness, but ive forced myself to choke down large amounts of underattenuated, raisiny sweet belgians in the past and it just isnt worth it.

to be fair the time involved in brewing a beer is a lot more intensive than the money. even though it may seem like you dont want to necessarily waste say 40 or 50 bucks, if you break down the time involved in you bothering with the beer, even after its brewed and then packaging it, waiting on it (passive time). it truly is just better to take it as a lesson to learn from and try again.

ive messed up and underattenuated many times, and the way i combat it is by taking it into consideration as one of the key things i want to avoid in theorizing and making a beer.

-watch the specialty grains
-watch your mash temp
-dont choose a maltotriose negative yeast. i just wont do it anymore.









Offline HopDen

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2023, 05:18:27 pm »
The Duvel strain (570) is notorious for stalling in the low twenties. If you search Duvel yeast stalling, you'll find it discussed in every homebrewing forum.

An option would be to warm it up to the upper 70s and give the keg a good shake, but I am not so sure you have enough yeast in the keg to get the job done without waiting weeks, maybe months.

You can pitch a different strain into the beer. Offgas the CO2, move the keg somewhere it is within the yeast's temperature range, hook up a blow off and direct pitch the yeast, only. After fermentation give it a cold crash and hook it up at serving pressure to pull a pint of trub. Then carb it back up. I wouldn't use wine yeast for this. A different Belgian strain would be my choice--I'd suggest the highly reliable westmalle strain--but other beer strains would work.

This will probably be my approach. Thanks!

Offline jjflash

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2023, 08:34:39 pm »
Just an FYI follow up.
Your beer flavor profile was set the first 72 hours into fermentation.
If needed adding a neutral yeast now will not affect the final flavor profile.
Lalvin EC-1118 is often referred to as the champagne yeast.
Dry yeast so no additional oxygenation required or recommended.
Alcohol and pH tolerant.
Super easy to use.
Many large commercial breweries have used champagne yeast, Goose Island, Ommegang, Samuel Adams, etc.
I personally have found attempts to rouse the yeast in an unfinished fermentation to be worthless (in my hands at least).
If the beers flavor profile is good, I would try to salvage.
I always attempt salvage before dumping.
I brew 12 plus gallons at a time.
Any beer I brewed, for any reason, that was under attenuated was salvaged (well attenuated), and drinkable.
If salvage does not work well, then dump is my method.
In 25 plus years of homebrewing I had at least several under attenuated beers.
Seems to happen when I experiment with a new brewing technique (in search of perfection).
Got a BGS right now going thru this same protocol after experimenting with LoDO.
---JJ---

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Offline jeffy

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2023, 06:06:05 am »
I have a similar beer (BGS) in a small keg that I use mostly for cooking. It is perfect with steamed mussels.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2023, 06:39:52 am »
@HopDen: What was your original recipe and process?  Just curious if you could pinpoint a culprit for the under attenuation.

Offline denny

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2023, 08:44:05 am »
The Duvel strain (570) is notorious for stalling in the low twenties. If you search Duvel yeast stalling, you'll find it discussed in every homebrewing forum.

An option would be to warm it up to the upper 70s and give the keg a good shake, but I am not so sure you have enough yeast in the keg to get the job done without waiting weeks, maybe months.

You can pitch a different strain into the beer. Offgas the CO2, move the keg somewhere it is within the yeast's temperature range, hook up a blow off and direct pitch the yeast, only. After fermentation give it a cold crash and hook it up at serving pressure to pull a pint of trub. Then carb it back up. I wouldn't use wine yeast for this. A different Belgian strain would be my choice--I'd suggest the highly reliable westmalle strain--but other beer strains would work.

I use the Wyeast version of that yeast frequently and have never had an issue.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2023, 12:27:21 pm »
The Duvel strain (570) is notorious for stalling in the low twenties. If you search Duvel yeast stalling, you'll find it discussed in every homebrewing forum.

An option would be to warm it up to the upper 70s and give the keg a good shake, but I am not so sure you have enough yeast in the keg to get the job done without waiting weeks, maybe months.

You can pitch a different strain into the beer. Offgas the CO2, move the keg somewhere it is within the yeast's temperature range, hook up a blow off and direct pitch the yeast, only. After fermentation give it a cold crash and hook it up at serving pressure to pull a pint of trub. Then carb it back up. I wouldn't use wine yeast for this. A different Belgian strain would be my choice--I'd suggest the highly reliable westmalle strain--but other beer strains would work.

I use the Wyeast version of that yeast frequently and have never had an issue.

Interestingly enough,Wyeast specifically calls out the stall in the description on their website (see below). Personally, i've used 570 a few times over the years and I've never noticed a stall, but if Wyeast is specifying this for 1388, then it must happen often enough.

Quote
Strain: 1388
BELGIAN STRONG ALE
Species: Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus

Profile: The classic choice for brewing golden strong ales. This alcohol tolerant strain will produce a complex ester profile balanced nicely with subtle phenolics. Malt flavors and aromas will remain even with a well attenuated dry, tart finish. This strain is prone to stalling at approximately 1.035; racking or slight aeration will encourage it to finish fermentation.   This Wyeast yeast strain has been classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus using rapid PCR analysis. This strain carries the STA1 gene, which is the “signature” gene of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus and will be found in all diastaticus strains.
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Offline denny

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2023, 12:52:33 pm »
The Duvel strain (570) is notorious for stalling in the low twenties. If you search Duvel yeast stalling, you'll find it discussed in every homebrewing forum.

An option would be to warm it up to the upper 70s and give the keg a good shake, but I am not so sure you have enough yeast in the keg to get the job done without waiting weeks, maybe months.

You can pitch a different strain into the beer. Offgas the CO2, move the keg somewhere it is within the yeast's temperature range, hook up a blow off and direct pitch the yeast, only. After fermentation give it a cold crash and hook it up at serving pressure to pull a pint of trub. Then carb it back up. I wouldn't use wine yeast for this. A different Belgian strain would be my choice--I'd suggest the highly reliable westmalle strain--but other beer strains would work.

I use the Wyeast version of that yeast frequently and have never had an issue.

Interestingly enough,Wyeast specifically calls out the stall in the description on their website (see below). Personally, i've used 570 a few times over the years and I've never noticed a stall, but if Wyeast is specifying this for 1388, then it must happen often enough.

Quote
Strain: 1388
BELGIAN STRONG ALE
Species: Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus

Profile: The classic choice for brewing golden strong ales. This alcohol tolerant strain will produce a complex ester profile balanced nicely with subtle phenolics. Malt flavors and aromas will remain even with a well attenuated dry, tart finish. This strain is prone to stalling at approximately 1.035; racking or slight aeration will encourage it to finish fermentation.   This Wyeast yeast strain has been classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus using rapid PCR analysis. This strain carries the STA1 gene, which is the “signature” gene of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus and will be found in all diastaticus strains.

That's very interesting! I've used it at least several times a year for over 20 years and never had it happen. Maybe they're taking an abundance of caution?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline HopDen

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2023, 03:49:00 pm »
@HopDen: What was your original recipe and process?  Just curious if you could pinpoint a culprit for the under attenuation.


75.5% Dingemans Pilsner (40lbs)
18.9% Simplicity Candi Syrup (10lbs)
5.7% Acid Malt (3lbs) Hit a mash pH of 5.21

Mash in @ 144* 40 mins
 154* 30 mins
 162* 20 mins
No mash out
75 Min Boil

OG est. 1.081 OG act. 1.071
FG est.1.010 FG act 1.022
Pitched a healthy starter @ 67 and let it free rise to 78 and held that temp to completion.
If i did the math correct then the apparent attenuation was 88% ??? 1.071-1.022/1.071-1=0.88 Is this correct??







Offline Megary

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2023, 06:05:18 pm »
@HopDen: What was your original recipe and process?  Just curious if you could pinpoint a culprit for the under attenuation.


75.5% Dingemans Pilsner (40lbs)
18.9% Simplicity Candi Syrup (10lbs)
5.7% Acid Malt (3lbs) Hit a mash pH of 5.21

Mash in @ 144* 40 mins
 154* 30 mins
 162* 20 mins
No mash out
75 Min Boil

OG est. 1.081 OG act. 1.071
FG est.1.010 FG act 1.022
Pitched a healthy starter @ 67 and let it free rise to 78 and held that temp to completion.
If i did the math correct then the apparent attenuation was 88% ??? 1.071-1.022/1.071-1=0.88 Is this correct??

(71-22) / 71 = .69 = 69% attenuation

Offline HopDen

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Re: Fixing an Under-attenuated BGSA
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2023, 06:21:37 pm »
@HopDen: What was your original recipe and process?  Just curious if you could pinpoint a culprit for the under attenuation.


75.5% Dingemans Pilsner (40lbs)
18.9% Simplicity Candi Syrup (10lbs)
5.7% Acid Malt (3lbs) Hit a mash pH of 5.21

Mash in @ 144* 40 mins
 154* 30 mins
 162* 20 mins
No mash out
75 Min Boil

OG est. 1.081 OG act. 1.071
FG est.1.010 FG act 1.022
Pitched a healthy starter @ 67 and let it free rise to 78 and held that temp to completion.
If i did the math correct then the apparent attenuation was 88% ??? 1.071-1.022/1.071-1=0.88 Is this correct??

(71-22) / 71 = .69 = 69% attenuation

That makes more sense. I didn't think I was correct. Thanks Megary