[ynotbrusum]

The pitch rate will be set by the activity of the yeast in the new wort used for the starter, based on the gravity of that wort.  The prior dead cells in the solution and the trub will simply fall to the trub at the bottom and likely carryover (if at all) as nutrient for the batch.  At least that is how I recall it being explained at one time.

[denny]

OK, so I have a batch that I used WLP001 Dry just getting ready to finish.  I was thinking of trying to save this yeast for another batch coming up in the next week or two.  My thought was, just leave a tiny bit of beer on the yeast, swirl it around to get everything up and running then save it in a mason jar.  Put it in the fridge and, when ready, bring it up to room temp and pitch it into the new batch.  I know some are going to recommend starters, but I have not had good luck with that the first time I tried.  Is it possible to just pitch the yeast without a starter?  Am I wasting my time if I do?  I am thinking of trying this next week once I bottle the batch, so I have some time to rethink this.  As usual, any input is welcomed and appreciated.

Divide it into 2-3 sanitized containers and store in the fridge. An entire slurry is too much for a 5 gal. batch unless the gravityis very high..  I pitch a jar directly if it's been maybe 3 weeks or less. More than that I make a starter with a bit of it.

What happened with your starter  before? One bad experience is no reason to write off the procedure. It's just a small batch of beer, and you know how to make beer.

It just never seemed to take off.  I used your SNS method, but the yeast I used may have been DOA as it was shipped and might have gotten warm.  I wil try again with part of the yeast I can save.  I have a couple of mason jars, one is a cup I think and the other two are bigger.  I am going to give it a try, why not, right?  LOL

Remember,  the container needs to be 4x larger than the amount of wort. A gal container and a qt of wort is the recommendation

[John M]

The pitch rate will be set by the activity of the yeast in the new wort used for the starter, based on the gravity of that wort.  The prior dead cells in the solution and the trub will simply fall to the trub at the bottom and likely carryover (if at all) as nutrient for the batch.  At least that is how I recall it being explained at one time.

I think it is good advice for all brewers, regardless of skill level to use a yeast calculator. Any amount of viable yeast cells will commence some fermentation, but the quality of beer you produce is going to be largely affected by the cell count of your pitch. Mr. Malty is free, and super easy to use.

[erockrph]

The pitch rate will be set by the activity of the yeast in the new wort used for the starter, based on the gravity of that wort.  The prior dead cells in the solution and the trub will simply fall to the trub at the bottom and likely carryover (if at all) as nutrient for the batch.  At least that is how I recall it being explained at one time.

I think it is good advice for all brewers, regardless of skill level to use a yeast calculator. Any amount of viable yeast cells will commence some fermentation, but the quality of beer you produce is going to be largely affected by the cell count of your pitch. Mr. Malty is free, and super easy to use.

I think many brewers who use SNS starters will disagree with that. Traditional starters based on cell counts from Mr Malty work, but pitching an active starter at high krausen works just as well in my experience.

[denny]

The pitch rate will be set by the activity of the yeast in the new wort used for the starter, based on the gravity of that wort.  The prior dead cells in the solution and the trub will simply fall to the trub at the bottom and likely carryover (if at all) as nutrient for the batch.  At least that is how I recall it being explained at one time.

I think it is good advice for all brewers, regardless of skill level to use a yeast calculator. Any amount of viable yeast cells will commence some fermentation, but the quality of beer you produce is going to be largely affected by the cell count of your pitch. Mr. Malty is free, and super easy to use.

It has been my experience that healthy yeast is much more important than cell count. In the SNS you're pitching far fewer cells that a calculator would have you believe you need, but because you're pitching g healthy,  active yeast, in a few hours your cell count is comparable and the yeast is in much better condition.

[denny]

The pitch rate will be set by the activity of the yeast in the new wort used for the starter, based on the gravity of that wort.  The prior dead cells in the solution and the trub will simply fall to the trub at the bottom and likely carryover (if at all) as nutrient for the batch.  At least that is how I recall it being explained at one time.

I think it is good advice for all brewers, regardless of skill level to use a yeast calculator. Any amount of viable yeast cells will commence some fermentation, but the quality of beer you produce is going to be largely affected by the cell count of your pitch. Mr. Malty is free, and super easy to use.

I think many brewers who use SNS starters will disagree with that. Traditional starters based on cell counts from Mr Malty work, but pitching an active starter at high krausen works just as well in my experience.

Or better in my experience.

[John M]

I did take a 3 year brewing hiatus, and I've noticed it seems views on several brewing techniques have changed since then.

I agree that yeast health is MORE important than quantity, but that doesn't mean quantity shouldn't be considered.

[John M]

So are you guys saying that there's never a case that you need to pitch more than one packet/vial, so long as you pitch an active starter? Could you only use half the pack/vial with the same results as a whole pack?

[Village Taphouse]

I did take a 3 year brewing hiatus, and I've noticed it seems views on several brewing techniques have changed since then.

I agree that yeast health is MORE important than quantity, but that doesn't mean quantity shouldn't be considered.

Things change in this hobby quite frequently so if you take a break I could see you being surprised at some of the things you see.  30-minute boils for the win!! 

[BrewBama]

So are you guys saying that there's never a case that you need to pitch more than one packet/vial, so long as you pitch an active starter? Could you only use half the pack/vial with the same results as a whole pack?

I believe you still have to pay attention to qty as well as viability.

[ynotbrusum]

So are you guys saying that there's never a case that you need to pitch more than one packet/vial, so long as you pitch an active starter? Could you only use half the pack/vial with the same results as a whole pack?

I believe you still have to pay attention to qty as well as viability.

You can underpitch if you don't pitch at or near high krausen for the SNS starter (for example, a one quart SNS starter pitched too early or very late into a very high gravity batch (think Barley Wine) can result in an underpitch).   I usually make a small beer (ABV wise) and use that full slurry as the "starter" for extremely large ABV beers.  But the high krausen pitch of the SNS starter is putting a supercharged slurry into the batch of wort at that point, so it isn't underpitching it, even if the sheer cell count might then be a bit low by calculator standards.

Oh and for the brewer who is just jumping back into brewing.  Current conventional wisdom indicates that the use of dry yeast avoids the need to aerate wort these days...and no need to hydrate the dry yeast, either.

[denny]

So are you guys saying that there's never a case that you need to pitch more than one packet/vial, so long as you pitch an active starter? Could you only use half the pack/vial with the same results as a whole pack?

Always a starter for liquid, never for dry. As to the rest, read this https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2020/12/09/shaken-not-stirred-the-stir-plate-myth-buster/

[denny]

So are you guys saying that there's never a case that you need to pitch more than one packet/vial, so long as you pitch an active starter? Could you only use half the pack/vial with the same results as a whole pack?

I believe you still have to pay attention to qty as well as viability.

Yes, but that quantity is less than with a typical stir plate starter.

[denny]

This is why cell count is less important https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2021/01/28/yeast-cultures-are-like-nuclear-weapons/

[Village Taphouse]

I'm going to start a fire here but I never saw a difference between my SNS starters and stirplate starters.  To my untrained (but experienced) eye, my stirplate starters looked more foamy and active.  The beers did not seem different, really.  The SNS starter did not produce a better beer although it did produce a good beer.  But same with my stirplate.  To me this always seemed like a solution looking for a problem.  I realize I am not a yeast lab scientist and I also know that a lot of study and effort went into those findings.  I was just always very satisfied with my stirplate starters.  My 2¢.