Author Topic: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!  (Read 5967 times)

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2010, 02:01:12 PM »
So feudal title means that the government truly holds the ownership? And we are all basically renters?

Its so confusing. Would it be safe to say- that if someone can come and legally take it away without your consent you dont truly own it?

I guess we cant talk about a one time tax on prperty or a tax on appreciation vs an on going tax (rent) cause of breaking the no politics rule. 
.   

Let me start by stating that I'm not a real estate lawyer, so take my "knowledge" on the subject with a grain of salt.  There exist several restrictions on what a real property owner can do with his land (zoning restrictions, laws against conducting certain criminal activities on one's property, etc.).  All of these restrictions tend to increase the government's power while diminishing a real property owner's rights.  Probably the biggest example of this "balancing" of power/rights is the government's power to "take" real property for "just compensation" from a private real property owner.  And while I wouldn't necessarily characterize the government's right to take property as being an "ownership" interest, I can see how you could think of it that way.  I guess it comes down to how you define terms like freedom and liberty as they are used in American law/politics/culture.  The U.S. Constitution essentially charters a system of ordered liberty, which necessarily requires a balancing of government power and individual liberty.  So I guess whether you feel you truly own your real property is a matter of personal philosophy.  Personally, I think it's sort of an academic, perhaps even pedantic, distinction to say that no one truly owns their land.  That said, if the government ever tries to exercise eminent domain over my real property, the compensation had better be exceptionally "just"!

I hope my post isn't taken as political.  I'm just trying to lay out some of the legal concerns regarding property ownership.
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Offline capozzoli

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2010, 02:28:48 PM »
That clears it up a little. If you manufacture meth at your property then I feel you risk that asset to forfeiture.

I feel the same way as you and the Native Americans. It is not possible to own anything, just use it for a little while.
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Offline thirsty

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2010, 02:34:57 PM »
So uh anyway... Congrats on the house! We just bought one in May. This is house number thee for us. Turned out to be slightly more of a fixer upper than we thought, but hey, it's only money! Thankfully we're almost done fixing the main problems.

Offline beerocd

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2010, 02:38:05 PM »
Ya gotta spend it somewhere - can't take it with you.
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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »
Did you know that you can never actually "own" the land. You can own the house and you can own the deed but you can never actually own the land. Its a sort of strange thing no one ever tells you.

I think that is how they so easily apply eminent domain in forced evictions to make way for highways and shopping malls and stuff. . .
I don't think that's how it works exactly, but I think I know what you mean.  You own it, but there are ways around that.  :-\

I "own" my land, but not the mineral rights, those belong to Weyerhauser.  If I ever discover gold in my backyard I've got to keep it on the DL or they'll just come and take it. :)

I have 400 ft. of river frontage.  I "own" the bottom up to 1/2 way across, but not the water.
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Offline denny

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2010, 03:21:34 PM »
That clears it up a little. If you manufacture meth at your property then I feel you risk that asset to forfeiture.

3 people on my road have been busted for large scale grow operations. They all lost their homes and land.

I feel the same way as you and the Native Americans. It is not possible to own anything, just use it for a little while.

Just like beer, huh?  :)
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2010, 04:49:22 PM »
3 people on my road have been busted for large scale grow operations. They all lost their homes and land.
Quote

Man, I don't think I could get away with growing tomatoes without hoping my neighbors know. Then again I'm on just under 7k sq. ft of "land" (interesting discussion by the way)

That said, I've got a new grocery store being built behind the neighboring houses and the little strip mall/office complex that's my direct neighbor has a great little pet store, sushi boat sushi joint, diner and a burrito place that does an awesome chicarron burrito.
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2010, 07:09:11 PM »
You know, PPL think they own their house....HA....
It owns YOU :o

Ya gotta live somewhere....way to go
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2010, 11:45:31 PM »
That clears it up a little. If you manufacture meth at your property then I feel you risk that asset to forfeiture.

3 people on my road have been busted for large scale grow operations. They all lost their homes and land.
Yeah, maybe with full allodial rights you wouldn't be subject to the laws of the US while there.  Pay no taxes, grow weed, kill a hobo, whatever you want.  Of course when someone comes to take it from you you're on your own . . . or maybe I just don't know what it really means, IANAL.

I saw that article Drew, hilarious!  At least it gave them something to do, right?
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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2010, 02:11:48 AM »
Hell, all I said was paint a gold capital G on the gable end and now they may take his house and everyone elses. What a country......hmmmm.

Offline tygo

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2010, 03:00:51 AM »
I just bought this house a little over a year ago.  It's our second place.  Just talked to my mortgage broker this evening about refinancing already with the rates the way they are.  Good time to buy Drew!
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Offline MrNate

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2010, 03:09:34 PM »
When we went to closing the banker explained it to us. He called it a "dirty little secret" That even when you have the mortgage of your home paid off and have the deed in your hand you still don't  "truly" own the land.

For that you would have to hold alloildal title. (forgive me for misspelling that word) In order to have alloidal title the land would have to be removed from the tax records. Not sure if that is possible.

I'm not a lawyer at all, but I did do some research on this issue a while back. Texas is one of the only states (if not THE only state) to recognize allodial title. Allodial title doesn't make you your own little country - You still have to abide by local, state, and federal law on your property, but it does make the land "yours" in the sense that you do not have to pay the city, county, etc. for the use of "their" land - i.e. property taxes.

From a practical standpoint, what this means is that once you own it free and clear, the government can not legally shake you down for protection money on that basis. Anywhere else, failure to pay property taxes means your home goes to Sheriff's auction.
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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2010, 04:18:30 PM »
Allodial title doesn't make you your own little country - You still have to abide by local, state, and federal law on your property, but it does make the land "yours" in the sense that you do not have to pay the city, county, etc. for the use of "their" land - i.e. property taxes.

Do you still get the government services that property taxes support? Police, fire, public schools, etc. If so, it sounds like quite the loophole.

Actually, googling around a bit, it seems like the TX allodial title thing is an urban legend. Nevada did have a provision for landholders whose property was owned free and clear and subsequently incorporated into a city, dramatically increasing their property tax burden. But they eliminated it in 2005.
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2010, 05:31:02 PM »
There was a story on the web this past week about a guy who didn't want to kick in $75 annually for the local town to provide services to him. (he was unincorporated) He refused to pay, his house caught fire, the firemen showed up and watched the house burn and they sprayed the neighboring houses(who paid the fee) to keep them from burning down.  :P
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Jumping Jehoshaphat - I own a house!
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2010, 06:03:31 PM »
Yeah, saw that story and man.. I can intellectually understand the fire departments actions, but at the same time - well - damn.

There are two solutions that I could think of that would be fair - 1) roll some portion of the county's taxes into paying for blanket coverage for the unincorporated area. 2) Say fine, you don't want to pay annually? Then if there's a fire and we respond, it's like if you go to the doctor uninsured - big ass bill time. That way, they can save the house and they can make it hurt enough that you shouldn't even flinch at the 75 per year.
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