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Author Topic: Knockout  (Read 685 times)

Offline KellerBrauer

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Knockout
« on: June 03, 2024, 12:34:01 pm »
I think I’m confused on the term “knockout”.  I’m entering a clone recipe for Bell’s Oberon into Beersmith and the hop additions seem quite simple, with exception to the final addition.

The final addition states: “2 oz. Saaz (at knockout)”.  With no stated time.

So, I understand “knockout” to mean “as soon as the boil ends”.  So, same as whirlpool?  And if a recipe doesn’t stipulate a timeframe, how long does the hops remain in the kettle?  Or does knockout mean something other than my interpretation?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 01:17:23 pm by KellerBrauer »
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Offline denny

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2024, 12:55:45 pm »
 To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.
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Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2024, 01:14:35 pm »
To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.

So, you're thinking the hops are supposed to go into the fermentor?  That's interesting because my first tasting of this beer was on tap.  My second was out of a bottle and i could swear i saw debris floating and circulating in the beer.  Maybe it was hops?  Is that normal to add hops like that?
Joliet, IL

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Offline Megary

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2024, 01:37:29 pm »
I’ve always understood knockout to mean as soon as you turn the heat off.  A knockout hops addition would be added at “zero” minutes and the wort would then be immediately chilled to pitch temperature, however long that takes.  A whirlpool hops addition would be added at some temperature between boiling and pitch, say 160F, and then held there for some amount of time.  When the time is up, the wort then being further chilled to pitch temp.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Offline denny

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2024, 01:38:54 pm »
To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.

So, you're thinking the hops are supposed to go into the fermentor?  That's interesting because my first tasting of this beer was on tap.  My second was out of a bottle and i could swear i saw debris floating and circulating in the beer.  Maybe it was hops?  Is that normal to add hops like that?

No, hops in the kettle at flameout.  The xfer the wort to fermenter without letting hops sit any longer, like you'd do for a whirlpool. Knockout additions were and remain popular,
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2024, 01:39:30 pm »
I’ve always understood knockout to mean as soon as you turn the heat off.  A knockout hops addition would be added at “zero” minutes and the wort would then be immediately chilled to pitch temperature, however long that takes.  A whirlpool hops addition would be added at some temperature between boiling and pitch, say 160F, and then held there for some amount of time.  When the time is up, the wort then being further chilled to pitch temp.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Don't think you're wrong.  That's how I see it, too.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Drewch

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2024, 05:19:30 pm »
I’ve always understood knockout to mean as soon as you turn the heat off.  A knockout hops addition would be added at “zero” minutes and the wort would then be immediately chilled to pitch temperature, however long that takes.  A whirlpool hops addition would be added at some temperature between boiling and pitch, say 160F, and then held there for some amount of time.  When the time is up, the wort then being further chilled to pitch temp.

Of course, I could be wrong.

This ☝️. I've always thought of it as a sort of if "0-minute" whirlpool. Add the hops and immediately start chilling.
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Offline Richard

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2024, 08:47:22 pm »
I wonder where the term "knockout" originated. What is being knocked out? I understand the origins of "flameout" and I wonder what the equivalent would be for electric brewers. Sparkout? Ampoff? Plugpull?
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2024, 07:29:54 am »
To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.

So, you're thinking the hops are supposed to go into the fermentor?  That's interesting because my first tasting of this beer was on tap.  My second was out of a bottle and i could swear i saw debris floating and circulating in the beer.  Maybe it was hops?  Is that normal to add hops like that?

No, hops in the kettle at flameout.  The xfer the wort to fermenter without letting hops sit any longer, like you'd do for a whirlpool. Knockout additions were and remain popular,

Okay — If I understand your explanation — Hops would be added to the kettle when the flame is turned off and the hops would NOT be removed; they would remain through fermentation!?!?
Joliet, IL

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Offline neuse

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2024, 08:02:02 am »
The fact that we have this discussion going tells me that any recipe showing a knockout addition without specifying a time to wait before chilling is an incomplete recipe. Recipes like this should show how long to wait before chilling.

Offline denny

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2024, 09:03:57 am »
To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.

So, you're thinking the hops are supposed to go into the fermentor?  That's interesting because my first tasting of this beer was on tap.  My second was out of a bottle and i could swear i saw debris floating and circulating in the beer.  Maybe it was hops?  Is that normal to add hops like that?

No, hops in the kettle at flameout.  The xfer the wort to fermenter without letting hops sit any longer, like you'd do for a whirlpool. Knockout additions were and remain popular,

Okay — If I understand your explanation — Hops would be added to the kettle when the flame is turned off and the hops would NOT be removed; they would remain through fermentation!?!?

No. Leave behind when xferring the wort to the fermenter
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2024, 11:43:40 am »
The fact that we have this discussion going tells me that any recipe showing a knockout addition without specifying a time to wait before chilling is an incomplete recipe. Recipes like this should show how long to wait before chilling.

I could not agree more.  In the contents of this discussion, a little information would be in order.
Joliet, IL

All good things come to those who show patients and perseverance while maintaining a positive and progressive attitude. 😉

Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2024, 11:44:44 am »
To me, knockpout has always meant add as soon as the flame is out, then xfer to fermenter.. Whirlpool implies a longer rest at a lower temp after additon.

So, you're thinking the hops are supposed to go into the fermentor?  That's interesting because my first tasting of this beer was on tap.  My second was out of a bottle and i could swear i saw debris floating and circulating in the beer.  Maybe it was hops?  Is that normal to add hops like that?

No, hops in the kettle at flameout.  The xfer the wort to fermenter without letting hops sit any longer, like you'd do for a whirlpool. Knockout additions were and remain popular,

Okay — If I understand your explanation — Hops would be added to the kettle when the flame is turned off and the hops would NOT be removed; they would remain through fermentation!?!?

No. Leave behind when xferring the wort to the fermenter

Copy that!
Joliet, IL

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Offline denny

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2024, 12:22:22 pm »
The fact that we have this discussion going tells me that any recipe showing a knockout addition without specifying a time to wait before chilling is an incomplete recipe. Recipes like this should show how long to wait before chilling.

I could not agree more.  In the contents of this discussion, a little information would be in order.

Knockout means you don't wait IMO
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Knockout
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2024, 01:20:33 pm »
The fact that we have this discussion going tells me that any recipe showing a knockout addition without specifying a time to wait before chilling is an incomplete recipe. Recipes like this should show how long to wait before chilling.

I could not agree more.  In the contents of this discussion, a little information would be in order.

Knockout means you don't wait IMO

I've made many recipes over the years that specified xx hops at knockout or at flame out.  It was pretty standard 20+ years ago.
It simply meant:
1) Turn off the heat
2) dump in the hops
3) start chilling the wort and pull your hop bags when you thought it was cool enough.

The wait time was however long you felt like leaving them in.
Point was a hope to get a bit more aroma and flavor into the wort.

If you go back far enough, the recipes are mostly suggestions based on shared common language.  It didn't start getting all "sciency" until much later.  8) ;D

Paul
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