Author Topic: Using Wort for Starter  (Read 1150 times)

Offline Kirk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Sparks, NV
    • View Profile
Using Wort for Starter
« on: October 14, 2010, 04:52:37 PM »
I would like to try using my cooled wort as starter material, but that means the rest of the wort has to wait a day or so for the yeast.  Any obvious pitfalls with this idea?  I can control the temperature.
Kirk Howell

Offline euge

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 05:12:27 PM »
Yeah. Go ahead and pitch your yeast if you made the brew. Reserve wort for next time and make your starter in advance.

Good luck.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline Kirk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Sparks, NV
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 05:23:06 PM »
This time, not next time.  I'm talking about as soon as the wort cools to room temperature, putting a quart or more into a flask, put it on a stir plate, and add the yeast.  The rest of the wort will wait in the primary carboy, air locked, at fermentation temperature, until the starter is ready.
Kirk Howell

Offline euge

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 05:39:49 PM »
Go ahead and try it. My opinion is that "fermentation temperature" is still within the danger-zone for bacteria. You'll probably be fine though. Not many of us will advise you to do it as a regular technique.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 06:53:54 PM »
I've considered doing this to get the yeast up and running after I've already built up a good population through stepped up starters.  But I haven't done it yet and if I did it'd only be a short wait to get to high krausen.  I've let my wort sit overnight (maybe 12 hours or so) a couple of times (because I forgot to crash my starter early enough) without any problems.  Like Euge says letting it sit at fermentation temp for a couple of days might be a bit on the risky side.

If you want to try this and are using a fridge/freezer and temp control you could bring the wort down to refrigeration temperatures quickly after it's transferred to the fermenter and then let it come back up to pitching temp when you're ready.  That would help retard the bacteria growth.
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline Kirk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Sparks, NV
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 07:19:24 AM »
Thanks guys for the tips and insight.  I think I'll stick with DME started pre-boil.  This Forum makes AHA membership worthwhile all by itself.
Kirk Howell

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 07:46:34 AM »
Every three of four brews, I'll adjust recipe to 11 gal, instead of 10, and fill four mason jars of wort, pressure cook them, and stick them in the fridge.  That's what I use for starters. 

So far, it's all gone great.  The IPA have fermenting now used a stepped up starter begining with just one pack of 1056 for ten gallons.  I'll find out next week how well that worked......

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 07:51:09 AM »
Every three of four brews, I'll adjust recipe to 11 gal, instead of 10, and fill four mason jars of wort, pressure cook them, and stick them in the fridge.  That's what I use for starters. 

This is something I definitely want to start doing.  Need to get myself a pressure cooker first though.
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 09:20:48 AM »
Every three of four brews, I'll adjust recipe to 11 gal, instead of 10, and fill four mason jars of wort, pressure cook them, and stick them in the fridge.  That's what I use for starters. 

This is something I definitely want to start doing.  Need to get myself a pressure cooker first though.

One of the Brewstrong episodes described this process.  It's not my original thought. 

Offline euge

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 10:22:04 AM »
Why not just freeze it instead of canning it? If you can it you don't need to put it in the fridge.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8678
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 02:03:02 PM »
Why not just freeze it ...

^^^^^^^This is what I Do.
Ron Price

Offline blatz

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2453
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 02:24:23 PM »
Why not just freeze it ...

^^^^^^^This is what I Do.

me too - an old club soda bottle does the trick!
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 08:30:55 AM »
Why not just freeze it instead of canning it? If you can it you don't need to put it in the fridge.

Good question, I don't have a good answer. 

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 09:51:56 AM »
I always thought it was a question of the wort being in a sanitized environment (freezer) versus sterile (canned).
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline euge

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: Using Wort for Starter
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
Well, you're supposed to boil it again.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman