Author Topic: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash  (Read 3541 times)

Offline brewmandan

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Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« on: October 16, 2010, 12:20:32 PM »
So I have recently come across a recipe for Lagunitas IPA, which I would really love to try and recreate. 

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/507

The only issue is, the recipe is designed for all grain brewing.  I am only 4 brews deep in my homebrewing career and not quite ready for the whole grain brewing yet.  Does anyone have any idea how to convert this recipe to extract brewing?  I usually use coopers liquid malt extract and add in specialty grains.  I know it wont turn out exactly the same, but I am just looking to get practice using a delicious blend of hops without intense bitterness.  Anyway here is the recipe.

Grain build:
10.9 lb - 2 row pale malt
.87 lb - malted weat
.82 lb - munich malt
.55 lb - crystal 60
1.3 lb - crystal 10

Hops:
4 grams Summit pellets (60 min)
10 grams Horizon (60 min)
23 grams Willamette (30 min)
11.5 grams Centennial (30 min)
34 grams Cascade (1 min)
21 grams Cascade (dry hop)
21 grams Centennial (dry hop)

Also, they mentioned this recipe is for 6 gallons at end of boil... What does that mean?  That is just 6 gallons total right? 

I use a 6 gallon carboy and brew 5 gallon batches.

Sorry for the novice questions, but I would really appreciate any advice!

Offline Malticulous

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 12:36:18 PM »
I'd just mash the Wheat and Munich along with the crystal malts. To convert that to five gallons just use 83% as much as the recipe. Add pale LME to get the correct OG (I'm not going listen to BN to get it.) If you add half the LME at 15 minutes you may be able to leave the hop schedule alone.

You really need to enter it into a recipe program. I use this free one.
http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe

End of boil just means after boil off evaporation. You need to start with a gallon or two more depending on your system. With a partial boil you can just top it off in the fermenter. Boil off can effect hop utilization. That calculator I linked needs you to enter the average boil volume to calculate IBUs.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 12:43:36 PM by Malticulous »

Offline a10t2

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 12:50:21 PM »
I'd just mash the Wheat and Munich along with the crystal malts.

That would be over 50% crystal malt though, so you'll probably need to include about half a pound of 2-row to ensure conversion. Then add 5 lb of extra light DME or 5.8 lb of extra light LME, which should get the OG back up to about 1.060. Like Malticulous said, do the extract addition late in the boil and you won't need to change anything else.

Mini-mash guide, if you need one: http://seanterrill.com/2009/04/09/good-beer-easy-beer/
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 03:06:59 PM »
A few days ago I look at the data sheet for Great Western wheat malt an the DP was 180. I think Briess is 160. Wheat can easily convert 75% adjunct...but then crystal is already converted anyway.  ::)

Offline brewmandan

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 03:37:40 PM »
A few days ago I look at the data sheet for Great Western wheat malt an the DP was 180. I think Briess is 160. Wheat can easily convert 75% adjunct...but then crystal is already converted anyway.  ::)

Sorry for a stupid question, but can you explain what this means please  ???

Offline jeffy

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 04:21:31 PM »
A few days ago I look at the data sheet for Great Western wheat malt an the DP was 180. I think Briess is 160. Wheat can easily convert 75% adjunct...but then crystal is already converted anyway.  ::)

Sorry for a stupid question, but can you explain what this means please  ???
This information is about enzymes and how they would convert the starch in adjuncts to sugar.  It's probably not necessary for a new extract brewer.
Take the original recipe and reduce the whole thing from 6 finished gallons to 5 to fit your gear.  This is just a simple percentage for both the grain and the hops. 5/6 = 83%  Buy an appropriate amount of light malt extract for the main part of the malt bill (the 2 row pale malt).  It's been a while since I've made an extract beer, but this should make up most of the original gravity, which ought to be about 1.065.  I'm thinking about 9 pounds of extract would do it.  Steep the crushed wheat, munich and crystal at about 150-155 degrees for 30 minutes or so in the water you are going to be boiling the batch.  Remove the grains, add the extract and bring it to a boil.
Follow the hop schedule, but use about 80% of their recipe.
I hope I haven't oversimplified it.  I'm sure if you hit the approximate gravity and have the appropriate hops it'll turn out similar to the IPA you want.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline dirk_mclargehuge

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2010, 05:28:18 PM »
So I have recently come across a recipe for Lagunitas IPA, which I would really love to try and recreate. 

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/507

The only issue is, the recipe is designed for all grain brewing.  I am only 4 brews deep in my homebrewing career and not quite ready for the whole grain brewing yet.  Does anyone have any idea how to convert this recipe to extract brewing?  I usually use coopers liquid malt extract and add in specialty grains.  I know it wont turn out exactly the same, but I am just looking to get practice using a delicious blend of hops without intense bitterness.  Anyway here is the recipe.

Grain build:
10.9 lb - 2 row pale malt
.87 lb - malted weat
.82 lb - munich malt
.55 lb - crystal 60
1.3 lb - crystal 10

Hops:
4 grams Summit pellets (60 min)
10 grams Horizon (60 min)
23 grams Willamette (30 min)
11.5 grams Centennial (30 min)
34 grams Cascade (1 min)
21 grams Cascade (dry hop)
21 grams Centennial (dry hop)

Also, they mentioned this recipe is for 6 gallons at end of boil... What does that mean?  That is just 6 gallons total right? 

I use a 6 gallon carboy and brew 5 gallon batches.

Sorry for the novice questions, but I would really appreciate any advice!

First, they do a 6 gallon batch so that 5.5 gallons goes into the fermenter and 5 gallons goes into the keg or bottles.  They are anticipating losses in the process. 

Second, if I were to covert this to extract I would substitute the two row and Munich for 8.8 gallons of extract (You can multiply the base grains by .75 to get the amount of extract needed) , replace the wheat malt with wheat flakes (or omit it altogether).  Steep the flaked wheat and the rest of the grains before adding the extract.  It won't be a perfect clone, but it'll get close.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 10:08:47 PM »
Second, if I were to covert this to extract I would substitute the two row and Munich for 8.8 gallons of extract (You can multiply the base grains by .75 to get the amount of extract needed) , replace the wheat malt with wheat flakes (or omit it altogether).  Steep the flaked wheat and the rest of the grains before adding the extract.  It won't be a perfect clone, but it'll get close.
Really, 8.8 gallons of extract in a 5 gallon batch?  ;D

Sub 1.5 lbs munich LME for the munich and some of the base.
Sub 1.5 lbs wheat LME for the wheat malt and some more of the base.
Sub 4.5 lbs pale DME for the rest of the base.

This assumes that the LME is 50% wheat or munich and 50% base malt.  If it's 100% wheat or munich, use half as much and make it up with the pale DME.

My opinion, YMMV
Tom Schmidlin

Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 05:50:41 AM »
I convert recipes all the time for Zymurgy.  It can be tedious, and it won't give you the same results, but it's the closest you can get if you make extract recipes.

Some kind of recipe calculator helps.  You can do back-of-the-envelope approximations and get close, but recipe calculators have ingredient databases and do all the math for you.  When I convert Zymurgy recipes, I use BrewPal on the iphone.  It's cheap and does what I need.

So the first thing you need to figure out is the total number of gravity points in the batch.  For that, in addition to the grain bill, you need to know either the efficiency or the OG of the beer.  If neither are listed (as in your example), you can assume 75%.  You can approximate the theoretical points per pound of grain at 36.  So multiply the total weight of grain by 36 and by 75% to get the total points.

If the OG and batch size are listed, then multiply them to get the total points instead.  You have to come up with the same number of points by using extract.  Subtract off any steeping grains (crystals and roasts).  You have to know how many points per pound of grain they provide to do this calculation (recipe calculator helps, otherwise assume 36 for base malts, 30 for crystal, and 25 for roast).  You're left with the points you need to get from extract.

Liquid extract is about 36 points per point, and dry extract is about 45 points per pound.  So divide 36 or 45 into the total points you need and that's how much extract you will use.

This assumes that you're doing the same batch size.  If the batch size changes, then you need to calculate the new total points required based on the batch size and the same OG.  Scale the grains in the recipe so that you're using the same percentage as in the original recipe.  Figure out the new individual contributions and substitute accordingly.

Then you just need to pick the right extract to get the closest flavor.  If you want to match as close as possible, try to find equivalent extracts for each mashable grain.  Or if your selection is limited, just use pale extract.  In most cases, you don't know what grains went into your extract, so you're guessing anyway.

Steep the grains in your water at 150-170F, rinse a bit, then add your extract and bring to a boil.  You don't need to boil as long as you do for all-grain.  Just as long as your first hop addition.  And you don't need to worry about messing with your water.  The mash is done, so you don't care about mash pH.  Just use something that tastes good.

If you aren't doing a full boil, the hop bitterness won't be right.  You'll need to add more.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline a10t2

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 06:54:29 AM »
Wheat can easily convert 75% adjunct...but then crystal is already converted anyway.  ::)

The issue isn't converting the crystal malt, it's ensuring that the enzymes present are concentrated enough to convert the base malts in a reasonable amount of time. The wheat should be fine, but I've seen Munich analyses with DP as low as 50°L. In that case, the OP's wheat malt could be 115°L and still drop the overall mash below 40. Better safe than sorry, especially for his first mini-mash.
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 10:59:49 AM »
I went ahead and converted it to all LME. Breiss Munich LME is 50:50 Munich and 2-row, Briess Wheat is 65:35 Wheat and Pilsner. This place is the only one I know of that will weigh out the odd amounts of LME (not something I'd try again at home.) They only sell hops by the oz. The brew builder program is a nice tool.
http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/recipe/8cd79519/malticulous-lagunitas-ipa

Offline tubercle

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Re: Converting all grain recipe to partial mash
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 05:17:57 PM »
I am only 4 brews deep in my homebrewing career and not quite ready for the whole grain brewing yet. 

....but I would really appreciate any advice!

  4 brews deep? You're already 3 behind on all grain. The sooner the better.
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