[violaleebrews]

no worries, beersk.  i had to poke fun.  i'd expect it if it were me   besides, it's BEEEEER, we can't help but to feel passionate about it.

New Holland's Black IPA is one of the few that I've had and I enjoyed it.  Just a little roasty.

i do know that the black hatter at new holland does not use carafa.  instead they use special b at the end of the mash.

[beersk]

Why do you have to use carafa?  I used 1/4 of black malt in my last IBA.  It was tasty.

[tumarkin]

Why do you have to use carafa?  I used 1/4 of black malt in my last IBA.  It was tasty.

Carafa, being debittered, will provide more restrained roastiness, bitterness, etc. It minimizes the flavor contribution that you get by using dark malts. The other approach is to use Sinamar, which is essentially a cold extract of carafa. The idea being to get the black color with minimal dark roastiness.

It's this concept that many people have trouble with regarding these beers..... what's the point if it's just color and not flavor? I don't have an answer to that. Still trying to expolre more commercial examples (and homebrewed as well) to get my head around this 'style'.  The naming thing is another whole issue, but I'm more concerned with flavor/brewing issues. The name will shake out over time.

[micsager]

Why do you have to use carafa?  I used 1/4 of black malt in my last IBA.  It was tasty.

Carafa, being debittered, will provide more restrained roastiness, bitterness, etc. It minimizes the flavor contribution that you get by using dark malts. The other approach is to use Sinamar, which is essentially a cold extract of carafa. The idea being to get the black color with minimal dark roastiness.

It's this concept that many people have trouble with regarding these beers..... what's the point if it's just color and not flavor? I don't have an answer to that. Still trying to expolre more commercial examples (and homebrewed as well) to get my head around this 'style'.  The naming thing is another whole issue, but I'm more concerned with flavor/brewing issues. The name will shake out over time.

I enjoy this style from Iron Horse in Ellensberg, wa, and Dechuttes, in Oregon.  The Alaskan version isn't too good.  nor the one from 21A.

[beersk]

Why do you have to use carafa?  I used 1/4 of black malt in my last IBA.  It was tasty.

Carafa, being debittered, will provide more restrained roastiness, bitterness, etc. It minimizes the flavor contribution that you get by using dark malts. The other approach is to use Sinamar, which is essentially a cold extract of carafa. The idea being to get the black color with minimal dark roastiness.

It's this concept that many people have trouble with regarding these beers..... what's the point if it's just color and not flavor? I don't have an answer to that. Still trying to expolre more commercial examples (and homebrewed as well) to get my head around this 'style'.  The naming thing is another whole issue, but I'm more concerned with flavor/brewing issues. The name will shake out over time.

Well I'm kind of settled on as to what an India Black Ale is to me, profile-wise.  I feel it should have a slight roasted flavor in the after taste from the dark/roasted malts, but it should also have the flavor and mouth feel of an IPA.  I suppose like any style the profile can vary quite a bit, but this is what an India Black Ale is to me.  Black IPA is a contradiction in terms, it's like saying pale stout, which you never see.  Why would you want to make an IPA dark and not have any of that tasty roasted flavor present?  Beats me...

[micsager]

Agreed.  I started with W10 recipe, from BYO.  But now add 2 ounces of Sorachi hops at 60 minutes, and 2 ounces of Oak cubes in the fermenter.

I've done a few blind taste tests with the Dechutte's CDA (their name, not mine) and folks have struggled to tell the difference. 

[kerneldustjacket]

I feel it should have a slight roasted flavor in the after taste from the dark/roasted malts, but it should also have the flavor and mouth feel of an IPA....Black IPA is a contradiction in terms, it's like saying pale stout, which you never see.  Why would you want to make an IPA dark and not have any of that tasty roasted flavor present?  Beats me...

I agree with your description of what one should be like...seems sensible that there should be some slight influence from the dark malts. Just consider the darker beers from Munich...Munich Dunkel (14-28 SRM) and Traditional Bock (14-22 SRM). In the BJCP guidelines, both can have small amounts of roasted malts to adjust color and maybe add a hint of roastiness. Similar notes for Schwarzbier. But note that there should not be a pronounced roastiness in any of these three dark lager sub-styles.

Both also mention that "moderate carbonate water may be used." I think it's obvious that Munich brewed darker beers to accommodate their water profile...at least before water adjustment was a reasonable practice. So maybe this style is a boon for those brewers in areas with water profiles that compare to Munich, and they don't treat their water. Could this be a "reasonable excuse" to employ grains that add color with little flavor contribution? (While also avoiding figuring out water chemistry and salt additions to boot.)

[The Professor]

..What a mess!.   I think one thing is clear: it IS a style that's here to stay. Seems its been around since the mid-eighties; the recent explosion of its popularity is no doubt tied to the very healthy craft-brewing culture we are now blessed with.

With regard to the original topic, I have no recipe to offer other than to just make a dark ale and hop it up.

I'll agree  that Black IPA, India Black Ale (or, god help us, "Cascadian Dark Ale") is here to stay, and certainly popularized by  the current culture of brewing...but all the arguing I've read around the net over who "invented" the "style" just seems quite funny to me, actually...even funnier than the claims by those who say they "invented"  something that probably actually dates back to the 1700's.

Besides, true beer "styles" aren't "invented" anyway...they evolve over time. 

[bluesman]

Here's an article from The Brewers Association that discusses dark ale.

http://www.craftbeer.com/pages/stories/craft-beer-muses/show?title=india-black-ale-a-rose-by-any-other-name

...and the debate continues.  

I like the BA'S definition best.  At least for my personal taste.

"American-style India Black Ale has medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content, balanced with a medium body. The style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and medium to strong dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent. Fruity, floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute to aroma and flavor."

[beersk]

The OP must be frustrated with this thread.  He was asking for a black ale recipe and it turned into an India Black Ale debate.  Sorry OP!  Could  be the reason he still only has 2 posts!

[bluesman]

The OP must be frustrated with this thread.  He was asking for a black ale recipe and it turned into an India Black Ale debate.  Sorry OP!  Could  be the reason he still only has 2 posts!

Yea...your right.

I'll fix that.

Here's my creation. I plan to try this one before the year is out. 


India Black Ale
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.25 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
 
Ingredients
 
22.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 81.48 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.41 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.70 %
1.00 lb Carafa I (319.0 SRM) Grain 3.70 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3.70 %
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.40 %] (Dry Hop)
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] (Dry Hop)
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 41.1 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.20 %] (30 min) Hops 11.4 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (20 min) Hops 4.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [7.20 %] (15 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.30 %] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.20 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.40 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gal Poland Spring (R) Water 
1 Pkgs Pacman Yeast (Wyeast) [Starter 6000 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
 
Est Original Gravity: 1.069 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.84 %  Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.70 %
Bitterness: 69.2 IBU
Est Color: 20 SRM
 
Mash Profile
 
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Mash PH: 5.4 PH
 
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 30 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F
10 min Sparge Add 30 qt of water at 186.3 F 168.0 F

 

[Mikey]

Why should his post count make any difference? I'd be more than happy to give him a recipe, if I had one.

[tschmidlin]

The OP must be frustrated with this thread.  He was asking for a black ale recipe and it turned into an India Black Ale debate.  Sorry OP!  Could  be the reason he still only has 2 posts!

Yea...your right.

I'll fix that.

Here's my creation. I plan to try this one before the year is out.  


India Black Ale

I'm not sure you fixed it blues - your recipe is not necessarily for the black ale the OP is looking for.  

I don't know what the OP means by black ale.  Is it black like a black lager compared to a light lager?  Well, then what is he trying to make a black version of?  There's lots of kinds of ales.  I don't know if we can automatically assume he means IBA/CDA.  Maybe just a black version of a pale ale?  Amber?  Bitter?  I don't know.

In any event, I don't have a recipe.  Just rousing the rabble.  

[bluesman]

The OP must be frustrated with this thread.  He was asking for a black ale recipe and it turned into an India Black Ale debate.  Sorry OP!  Could  be the reason he still only has 2 posts!

Yea...your right.

I'll fix that.

Here's my creation. I plan to try this one before the year is out.  


India Black Ale

I'm not sure you fixed it blues - your recipe is not necessarily for the black ale the OP is looking for.  

I don't know what the OP means by black ale.  Is it black like a black lager compared to a light lager?  Well, then what is he trying to make a black version of?  There's lots of kinds of ales.  I don't know if we can automatically assume he means IBA/CDA.  Maybe just a black version of a pale ale?  Amber?  Bitter?  I don't know.

In any event, I don't have a recipe.  Just rousing the rabble.  

I don't know exactly what he was looking for either.

But at least he has a Black Ale recipe now. 

[chumley]

Back when I started brewing in 1990, a black ale was called a "porter".