Author Topic: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?  (Read 12292 times)

Offline ullarsskald1989

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2011, 06:13:41 PM »
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
Who resurected this old thing?

 Tubercle's take. No

 There is no such thing as secondary fermentation. {snip}

How about when one racks off to a secondary vessel, adds to the sugar level and re-pitches???
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Offline tubercle

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2011, 06:21:16 PM »
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

What about bottle conditioning?
Who resurected this old thing?

 Tubercle's take. No

 There is no such thing as secondary fermentation. {snip}

How about when one racks off to a secondary vessel, adds to the sugar level and re-pitches???

 You are just feeding the yeast so they can continue their (only) fermentation. Call it second helpings.
Sweet Caroline where the Sun rises over the deep blue sea and sets somewhere beyond Tennessee

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2011, 07:00:37 PM »
Who resurected this old thing?

 Tubercle's take. No

 There is no such thing as secondary fermentation. It's all one fermentation and one fermentation only. Sometimes it is done in two seperate vessels in special circumstances but it is still only one;from begining to end. Secondary fermentation should be stricken from the vocabulary.

One of the NHC presentation in Minneapolis (I think) covered beer maturation by Steve Parks.  He had the fermentation laid out from the activity of the yeast, not the vessel.  Primary was consuming sugars as the energy source.  Secondary was when the sugars are gone and the yeast switch to acetaldehyde and diacetyl as the remaining energy source.  You can look that up in the NHC presentation archieves, going to bed now.
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Offline ullarsskald1989

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2011, 09:04:40 PM »
Quote
Tubercle: There is no such thing as secondary fermentation.

Quote
Ullarsskald: How about when one racks off to a secondary vessel, adds to the sugar level and re-pitches???

Quote
Tubercle: You are just feeding the yeast so they can continue their (only) fermentation. Call it second helpings.

Cogent point here "re-pitch."

In example...I brew a high gravity braggot and pitch with an English Ale yeast to set the flavor profile.  I rack off the working braggot off the trub to a second vessel and add makeup liquid, which contains an increase of sugar content, I also repitch with a yeast that will add no character of its own, but will eat the additional sugar.

This is a second fermentation.

I've been brewing since 1974 and have learned that there are no absolute yeses or noes in our art, save the necessity for proper sanitation.
Today is a good day; to learn, to do, to love, to be...

(Ale - 1974, Wine - 1975, Mead - 1983)

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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2011, 04:33:54 PM »
I agree with only racking to secondary if the beer needs it, ie a fruit addition or a beer that needs aging. My beer stays on the yeast 3-ish weeks, then goes into kegs for conditioning. The clear, "stuff" settles and they go in the keggerator.

There is ONE exception that is working it's way into the above scenario: If the beer has to travel. This summer I brought 11 kegs with me on vacation, and they rode in the trailer, and then in the beer cart. Needless to say that whatever was in the bottom got stirred up. So, for future "mobile beer" I plan on getting organized enough ahead of time where I can spend three weeks on the yeast, and another 3-4 in either a carboy or a keg, and then when perfectly clear get transferred to another keg.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2011, 04:39:36 PM »
FTR I am 100% behind the usage of BRIGHt TANKS - just not secondary fermenters (which are usually just carboys.) A corny keg with the dip tube cut works pretty good as a BT.
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2011, 05:50:38 PM »
Why cut the dip tube?
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2011, 05:59:11 PM »
You cut the dip tube so that you can pull beer without pulling yeast. Then rack to other corny via jumper. In my brewery my brights have "stands" on the bottom that raise up above the bottom of the tank to let beer settle around the stand so that i can rack beer off yeast. Same principle, different engineering.

I had about 20 corny kegs and about 6 of them had cut dip tubes. Even if I didn't rack the beer of the yeast I was able to pull clear beer out of the corny kegs with shortened tube as long as I didn't move them. ended up losing about 1 pint total. Maybe 2.
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Offline euge

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2011, 07:19:59 PM »
If you do it use a pipe-cutter not a hacksaw. A cutter will make it nice and clean.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2011, 12:32:14 AM »
Don't cut your dip tubes. :)

if you have to transport kegs, rack them to a new keg (which is not the same as doing a secondary).  You can blow off the start of the keg and then rack the rest to a new one, but realistically if you rack the whole thing the amount of yeast that gets transferred win;t be enough to seriously cloud 5-gallons of beer.  It might not be brilliant, but it will still be pretty clear.
Tom Schmidlin

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2011, 04:54:42 AM »
It's easier just to cut a couple dip tubes.  ;) I agree, use a pipe cutter. They are cheap and easy to use. 1 inch off the bottom of the tube will help you rack off clear beer and you lose very, very little beer. This is the way the pros do it (though they use stands or conicals, not dup tibes), why not adapt it for the home?

Another tip: Biofine Clear. I've been using it recently and WOW - you can get filtered looking beer very quickly. Best fining agent I have used.
Keith Y.

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Offline bo

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2011, 07:15:00 AM »
Don't cut your dip tubes. :)

if you have to transport kegs, rack them to a new keg (which is not the same as doing a secondary).  You can blow off the start of the keg and then rack the rest to a new one, but realistically if you rack the whole thing the amount of yeast that gets transferred win;t be enough to seriously cloud 5-gallons of beer.  It might not be brilliant, but it will still be pretty clear.

As tempting as it has been, I have never cut off any of mine either and wouldn't  recommend it. You'll get a shot or 2 of trub, but it'll clear quickly after that. Consider it extra B vitamins that you need anyway.

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2011, 07:37:59 AM »
If you don't want to cut the tubes and you have cornies with the bent tubes you can actually just slightly bend them a little more to pull off about an inch or so from the bottom. That way you don't have to cut the tubes if that is a concern. I can understand why people would be a little hesitant to cut the tubes but it always worked well for me. Also, places like Morebeer carry dip tubes and they are pretty cheap. If you wanted to could just buy one or two of those and cut them so that you don't ruin your original tube.
Keith Y.

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Offline tubercle

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »
Seems like I remember someone had a device that floated and pulled beer from the top of a keg. Maybe I just dreamed it.
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Offline bo

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Re: Is it necessary to rack to a secondary fermenter?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2011, 09:50:30 AM »
That floating device sounds interesting.