Author Topic: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts  (Read 4257 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 07:12:58 PM »
I agree 100% it doesn't hurt. And I also admit that, given the choice, I normally choose to aerate too. just to be safe. That said, a few weeks ago I noticed my o2 tank was out and I was glad I was using dry yeast since I had to rely on the shake method.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 11:00:51 AM »
I aerate ALL yeast. I don't believe dry yeast should be treated any differently.
Do you also proof the dry yeast with water or make a starter with it before adding it to your wort?
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Offline denny

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2010, 11:05:03 AM »
I've pitched 05 both with and without aeration and didn't find any difference in performance of the quality of the beer.  Being the "pragmatic" type, I hate to do work that doesn't provide a noticeable benefit.  I don't bother doing anything about aeration with 05 now.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2010, 01:45:08 PM »
I aerate ALL yeast. I don't believe dry yeast should be treated any differently.
Do you also proof the dry yeast with water or make a starter with it before adding it to your wort?

Yes, if needed.

I've used US05 with and without starters and quite honestly, the starters give it a boost just like they do liquid yeasts. Much faster starts then pitching dry. I don't do it very often, but the beer certainly doesn't suffer when I do. A couple of weeks ago,  I pitched 2 packets (dry), in 10 gallons of wort and it took about 48 hours to get going. Had I made a starter, it would have easily cut that time in half.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 04:00:32 AM by Mikey »

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 05:11:21 AM »
As easy, convenient and clean as US-05 is making a starter defeats the purpose of using it. If I am going to make a starter I will use liquid yeast. I think the liquid chico strain is a little better than US-05 anyways. And I feel much more comfortable repitching the slurry for several gens. If you are having a lag over 24 hours with US-05 though you probably are using unhealthy/expired yeast anyways and maybe you should be starting it. Its rare I have a lag on US-05 longer than 24 hours, even pitching in the mid 50s.

Another thing along the same lines as aeration for dry yeast - interestingly enough you don't really need to aerate the wort at all. What needs aeration is the yeast. A lot of belgian brewers do not aerate the wort, but only aerate the yeast. Same principal applies as with dry yeast. The point of the matter is to get the yeast to stock up their sterol reserves so they can bud and reproduce easier. You do this by constantly aerating them during the reproductive cycle. So if you grow a starter under constant aeration, and pitch it immediately without letting it go dormant, technically you should not need to aerate the wort. Though, again, it probably doesn't hurt.

Also, anytime you repitching yeast after a fermentation (not under constant aeration) you need to aerate either the yeast or the wort because as soon as the yeasts' metabolism goes anaerobic they use up those sterol stores.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 08:13:06 AM »
I don't use dry yeast much, but when I do I prefer to "proof" the yeast (as in baking) so that I know the yeast will be active.  If there's no activity after ten minutes I know the yeast is bad and try a new package, rather than pitching dry yeast and finding no activity the next day.
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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 09:25:59 AM »
I've been using a lot of dry yeast in the past year or so.  The fermentis lager yeast (34/70?) is one of my favorites, but I use US-05 and 04 as well.  A recent batch with their Bavarian Wheat is my first disappointment.  Very low clove and almost no banana.

I also rehydrate it in water according to their web site's instructions, but I didn't know that I was proofing it.
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Offline roguejim

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2010, 12:36:52 PM »
As easy, convenient and clean as US-05 is making a starter defeats the purpose of using it. If I am going to make a starter I will use liquid yeast. I think the liquid chico strain is a little better than US-05 anyways. And I feel much more comfortable repitching the slurry for several gens. If you are having a lag over 24 hours with US-05 though you probably are using unhealthy/expired yeast anyways and maybe you should be starting it. Its rare I have a lag on US-05 longer than 24 hours, even pitching in the mid 50s.

Another thing along the same lines as aeration for dry yeast - interestingly enough you don't really need to aerate the wort at all. What needs aeration is the yeast. A lot of belgian brewers do not aerate the wort, but only aerate the yeast. Same principal applies as with dry yeast. The point of the matter is to get the yeast to stock up their sterol reserves so they can bud and reproduce easier. You do this by constantly aerating them during the reproductive cycle. So if you grow a starter under constant aeration, and pitch it immediately without letting it go dormant, technically you should not need to aerate the wort. Though, again, it probably doesn't hurt.

Also, anytime you repitching yeast after a fermentation (not under constant aeration) you need to aerate either the yeast or the wort because as soon as the yeasts' metabolism goes anaerobic they use up those sterol stores.

In what way is the Chico strain better than US-05?

Offline majorvices

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2010, 01:39:33 PM »
I don't use dry yeast much, but when I do I prefer to "proof" the yeast (as in baking) so that I know the yeast will be active.  If there's no activity after ten minutes I know the yeast is bad and try a new package, rather than pitching dry yeast and finding no activity the next day.

If you look at the link I posted to previously, the fact that the yeast foams or not during "proofing" (or rehydrating) does not indicate whether it is healthy of not. Also, hopefully you are "proofing" the yeast in just water and not water and sugar or malt, because that can actually do more harm than good by causing the yeast to start depleting their sterol reserves.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 01:45:16 PM by majorvices »
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Offline narcout

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2010, 04:20:17 PM »
If there's no activity after ten minutes I know the yeast is bad and try a new package, rather than pitching dry yeast and finding no activity the next day.

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Offline kramerog

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2010, 12:17:35 PM »
Theoretically you should not need to aerate with dry yeast. But I have done it both ways and never noticed any difference or tart flavors. And, personally, I do not like S04. And I hate WB-06.

I recently made an Am. Pale Ale with homegrown Cascades with 3 different splits.  All of the splits were quite citrusy and the dry-hopped ones were extremely citrusy with sour notes.  I was thinking that it was the homegrown Cascades in their second year that may been out of character or the gentle drying of the hops preserving more of the citrus character, but now I'm thinking it was aeration providing a sour note that accentuated the citrus. 

Anyway, I'm not going to aerate my IPA with the homegrown Cascades.


I'm not sure I would blame the yeast.  I made two APAs, the same grain bill for both, but homegrown Cascades in one batch.  It was more citrusy than the batch with Amarillo.  I simply chalked it up to the freshness of the homegrown hops.  Both batches were hit with a wine degasser after pitching dry yeast.



After a few days the sour note and some of the citrus aroma has dissipated.  So it was just the freshness of the hops and beer that created the sourness and not the aeration.  Nevertheless, I'm not going to aerate when using dry yeast.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »
That was pretty interesting. Particularly these statements:


"I don't use S-04, but I found oxygenating US-05 on the first pitch produced a tart fruit flavor, inconsistent with the beers I was trying to produce. Both major dry yeast manufacturers have mentioned there are enough lipids within the cell for the first fermentation (for average gravity worts). As soon as I stopped aerating the first pitch, I noticed far better flavor profiles for US-05."



It is unclear if the brewer is oxygenating with oxgen or with air.  If with oxygen, that would tend to explain why many have not noticed sour notes when aearating the wort.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Pro Brewers...Fermentis yeasts
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2010, 07:19:58 PM »
Pitched 2 packets of US-05 into five gallons of 1.064 porter with no special effort at aeration on Monday.  It's off to the races with minimal lag time.  We'll see how it tastes when it's done.
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