[dbeechum]

Yeah, to me, some of the darker sugars carry particularly punchy rummy notes that carry across into the beer. One of my favorites, for darker beers, is Billington's Dark English Brown Sugar. Big molasses smoky punch.

[denny]

Haven't seen that one around, but I definitely get those "punchy, rummy notes" from the dark and D2 syrups.

[tschmidlin]

I like to use Lyle's Golden Syrup in my English Barleywine, that beer always turns out really nice.  I used dark brown sugar in my first batch ever, but don't think I have since.  I might have to throw some in next time I do a porter.  Hmmm .  . .

[gordonstrong]

I thought piloncillo sugar had a smoky almost burnt flavor to it.  Very dark.

Some of the unrefined sugars are interesting: turbinado, demerrara, muscavado. Varying darknesses and flavors.

Watch out for supermarket brown sugar; check the ingredients -- it could be just white cane sugar with molasses added. If you're going to do that, you might as well just add those ingredients separately.

Lyle's is interesting; I thought it had a toasted marshmallow flavor to it.

Scour whatever ethnic markets you have to see if they have unusual sugars; jaggery from India is nice.

Never used corn syrup, though. I don't like it as a sweetener in food, so I didn't think I'd like it in beer.

[tschmidlin]

Lyle's is interesting; I thought it had a toasted marshmallow flavor to it.

I agree, but it doesn't come through in the beer.  I get more caramel notes.

Scour whatever ethnic markets you have to see if they have unusual sugars; jaggery from India is nice.

I agree, really good stuff plain and in beer.  The palm sugar I get is from Thailand, and says "Pure Palm Sugar.  Ing: Fresh natural juice from coconut flower"

[denny]

Gordon, do you generally add sugar in the kettle or the fermenter?

[gordonstrong]

Depends on whether I'm using it for flavor or to compensate for undershooting gravity and not catching it early enough 

I usually add in the kettle in the last 5 minutes or so, maybe at knockout if I'm afraid it will scorch.  My kettle has a false bottom, so if I use liquid sugars I don't like to just pour them in while the flame is on.

If add them to the fermenter, it's near the start of fermentation. 

Adding sugars at the end of fermentation sounds like priming to me.  Yeah, I've done that...  Sometimes you want to add interesting sugars for priming when you want maximum flavor carryover.  De Dolle Stille Nacht primes with honey, for instance.  I've also primed with Lyle's, brown sugar, molasses, treacle, etc.

[denny]

Thanks for the explanation.

[theoman]

Thanks for the tips, all. The stuff I have is definitely light and no vanilla. It's some Canadian stuff, Beehive or something. What I guess I'm most concerned about is the salt that's in it and how much to use. Any idea how to calculate the fermentables?

[beveragebob]

Iv'e used Karo Syrup in a Tripel about 10 years ago and it was quite good. Everyone was saying that drank it "I'm getting a hint of something but, it's pleasant......could that be vanilla?" I'm going to have to do it again. Conversely, I've used Dark Karo in Dubbels and Dark Belgian Strong Ales with good results. This was way before we had access to the D2 etc syrups.

[BrewArk]

Just scored a 5 gallon pail of low DE corn syrup (Cleardex 25/42).  The spec. sheet says:

 7% dextrose
 8% maltose
11% maltotriose
74% higher saccharides
This appears different from the "sweet" corn syrup like the Karo you'd buy in the store that are only about 25% higher saccharides.

I'm thinking that I need to include it in the mash, not the boil kettle (or fermenter).

I plan to dissolve it in the water that I'm heating for the mash (kinda like a mead?), and go from there.  Since it was free, I may play around with it to see how a ratio of "in the mash" and "in the kettle" works out over several batches.

[tschmidlin]

That sounds like it will be fun to play with.  You can treat it with amylase to make it highly fermentable and then add it straight to the boil, or do a mini-mash with some 6-row to convert it and add it to the boil.  Adding it to a full mash would probably be less efficient, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.   It could also be good to add body to a beer that got higher attenuation than anticipated.

I think I would start by making up a small batch of nothing but the low DE syrup and seeing how it attenuates.  You'd expect to get 26% RDF, but you never know.

[BrewArk]

<snip>

I think I would start by making up a small batch of nothing but the low DE syrup and seeing how it attenuates.  You'd expect to get 26% RDF, but you never know.

There is virtually no protein at all.  Do you think that would affect the yeast's ability to consume all the fermentables? Start w/a fairly high inoculation?

[tschmidlin]

<snip>

I think I would start by making up a small batch of nothing but the low DE syrup and seeing how it attenuates.  You'd expect to get 26% RDF, but you never know.

There is virtually no protein at all.  Do you think that would affect the yeast's ability to consume all the fermentables? Start w/a fairly high inoculation?

Yeah, blast it with yeast or add a little nutrient and keep it warm like you're doing a forced ferment.  You're looking for information with this test, not flavor