Author Topic: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked  (Read 5762 times)

Offline EHall

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 06:23:12 PM »
I brew my clone tomorrow...
Phoenix, AZ

Offline ryang

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2010, 09:09:25 AM »
I was perusing an older issue of zymurgy last night (July/Aug 2010).

I saw in Chalie P's article/recipe for Carla's Oat Brown that he utilizes hop oil... and prepares it for use using oil and beer.  I looked for a contact for Charlie to seek his input and wisdom concerning our hop oil conundrum here for the historic Ballantine beers.  Alas, I could not find one.  Anyone have a contact?  Is it really as simple as charlie@brewersassociation.org?  I am wondering
1. where he sources his oil
2. deeper explaination into the preparation
3. his opinion on the flavor/aroma contributions the oil makes

Offline denny

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2010, 09:23:40 AM »
That is the correct email addy.  You could also try a PM to charliepapazian.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 09:26:17 AM by denny »
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Offline abraxas

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2010, 09:30:44 AM »
http://www.freshops.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=MERCHOIL

I have some but haven't tried it in a beer yet.

beveragebob

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2010, 02:14:59 AM »
The more I contemplate, read and understand what Ballantine did, the more I find myself thinking that sticking with dry hopping is the way to go. Even Ballantine added copious amounts of the oil extracts over time because even those faded. Besides, I really do not believe I'm going to age a Ballantine Burton Ale Clone for 20 years in Oak, more like 5 years max..maybe. I think just dry hopping every 3 months for a year with the BIPA Clone is more feasible and hopefully rewarding. These guys did it for a living and had the equipment, procedures and the means to make beers we may never be able to completely recreate but, hey if we come close and make truly stellar brews from their inspiration, we are great brewers in our own right! No applause please! ;D

Offline ryang

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2010, 07:03:53 AM »
Ha! Yeah, I'm leaning that way as well.  It was my wife really though... "Why don't you just dry hop the crap out of it and not worry about that stupid oil!"
And yeah, I'm not about to age my burton for 20 yrs.  Completely infeasible (at least for me right now).  Ties back into the fact that this is not my living and don't have the equipment/procedures they did.

I've already picked up extra hops for dry hopping anyway, so I figure an oz here and there will eventually add up and not hit my pocketbook all at once.  

What are you thinking in terms of hop variety of dry hopping?  just saaz like in your recipe?  I was thinking of using the same 3 that I had in the boil... EKG, cluster, and brewers gold.  I picked up a bunch of EKG and cluster already.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 07:05:28 AM by ryang »

Offline jeffy

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2010, 08:39:40 AM »
Ha! Yeah, I'm leaning that way as well.  It was my wife really though... "Why don't you just dry hop the crap out of it and not worry about that stupid oil!"
And yeah, I'm not about to age my burton for 20 yrs.  Completely infeasible (at least for me right now).  Ties back into the fact that this is not my living and don't have the equipment/procedures they did.

I've already picked up extra hops for dry hopping anyway, so I figure an oz here and there will eventually add up and not hit my pocketbook all at once.  

What are you thinking in terms of hop variety of dry hopping?  just saaz like in your recipe?  I was thinking of using the same 3 that I had in the boil... EKG, cluster, and brewers gold.  I picked up a bunch of EKG and cluster already.
Personally I would think that Clusters would make a very bad dry hop, but that's just my opinion.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2010, 10:19:39 AM »
I think you're going to lose a lot of the beer to the dry hops, that's the advantage of the oil.   :-\
Tom Schmidlin

Offline The Professor

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2010, 12:09:21 PM »
I think you're going to lose a lot of the beer to the dry hops, that's the advantage of the oil.   :-\

Plus the oil will provide a much more intense aroma, like the BIPA had, and without the grassy tastes that whole hops can add.  Ballantine used both dry hopping and hop oil.  You can skip the oil, but not if you're looking to recreate the original product.  Those who never tasted the original probably wouldn't miss it.  But I drank so much of this stuff back in the day that to me, it would be the missing link.

There are different types of hop oil, so it's important to get (or attempt to make) the proper type...there are specific oils made for bittering, for 'late hop' flavor, and strictly for aroma.  Ballantine made their own, and unfortunately none of the former Bally workers I talked to could supply any specifics on the setup or methods used to extract and distill.  I'm guessing that there was ethanol involved for extraction which was then redistilled, most likely under a vacuum (thus allowing far lower evaporation temperature and less damage to the aromatics).  But that's just speculation.

As far as the aging, I agree that 20 years for the Burton isn't very practical for hombrewing  unless you're ambitious and start young! (my Burton gets an average of 1 or 2 years and I'm pretty satisfied with that.)
But that one year that was part of  BIPA's production isn't hard to do on a homebrew level.   The long aging is a very important aspect to consider when trying to  re-create this beer.
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beveragebob

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2010, 01:31:11 PM »
Yes, I agree Professor. I was looking at the method Ballantine probably used last night and it seems equipment challenging. Low temp high pressure C02 extraction with vacuum seems to extract the heart of the aroma without damaging it. Here's a pretty good link of the discussion from back in May of this year on the HBD:
http://hbd.org/discus/messages/48727/49438.html?1274280026

I guess I'll revisit Hop Unions Methods and see if I can acquire some. The consensus is high temp H20 extraction methods do not equate to the hop aroma derived from dry hopping or C02 extraction methods.

tschmidlin, if I have to drink a couple of pints from a 10 gallon keg every three months to make room for more hops, I'll sacrifice myself  :D

ryang, I'm going to be using Cluster(they got a bad rap) and Czech Saaz.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2010, 01:46:43 PM »
tschmidlin, if I have to drink a couple of pints from a 10 gallon keg every three months to make room for more hops, I'll sacrifice myself  :D
It's not the room in the keg, it's the beer absorbed by the hops ;)
Tom Schmidlin

beveragebob

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2010, 02:16:24 PM »
I'm not worried about that. I'm still working angles to see what I wind up really doing. Stay tuned.

beveragebob

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2010, 07:06:28 PM »

beveragebob

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2010, 07:20:29 PM »
OK, so I ordered those hop aroma tabs and have read through all the instructions but, I don't see how many to add to a 10 gallon keg. They come in a 5 pack and I did just keg my BIPA clone on 4 oz of American Medium toasted oak cubes so, I'll probably add all 5 next year two weeks before I hook the keg up to the tap. BTW, that place has allot of useful stuff at great prices including hops, I ordered 2- 8 oz  EKG pellet hops for 8 bucks a piece. They also have WL yeasts that are drop shipped from White Labs separately so, no issues on freshness. Oh yeah they have a huge range of kegs and supplies and replacement parts I'm glad I found them on an advert on homebrew talk forum. They email you all the shipping info as it goes out. Shipping is pretty cheap also..only 10 bucks and I got a bunch of other things too.  I'm going to toot their horn so others can discover what a great place this is so, hopefully they'll be around for a while. One more thing... a brand new "refurbished"(I know it sounds contradictory...you'll have to read the details) for $165...that's incredible these days.......NAYYY:
http://www.chicompany.net/

Don't forget to answer my question if you have experience with these tabs.....Thanx!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 01:23:03 AM by beveragebob »

Offline EHall

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Re: Ballantine IPA Clone Tweaked
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 06:56:08 PM »
williams brewing suggests 1-2 quarter sized aroma tabs per 5 gals, at eob or in keg...

I tapped my clone last week, I think it came out pretty good. I used a recipe very close to what ryang posted. I used EKG to dry hop. No oak. Its got that woodsy flavor from the hops, a light sweetness from the malt and corn in the background, very smooth.
I like it, I'll prob brew this one again. The only thing that bugs me is I can't find anyone that I come across locally whos either had it or can remember it... I don't mingle with folks 55 and older much... but it would be nice to find someone who drank it back in the 60s/70s and would have some recollection of it to give feedback...
Phoenix, AZ