Author Topic: fizz problem...  (Read 1839 times)

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2010, 10:17:52 AM »
What you're describing would happen if you are pushing it with too much CO2.  I think you need to turn the CO2 down until you have a reasonable pour and see if that helps.  Then you might need to swap out your hoses for longer or more restrictive ones to get the right pour at the right carbonation level.

It might help to read through this manual that Gary posted in another thread, it will help you balance your system.
http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/publications/draught-quality-manual
Tom Schmidlin

Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2010, 10:44:06 AM »
This is just my opinion, so don't shoot me!

I had the same problem with a kegged Belgian Golden Strong Ale. Tried to get higher than normal carbonation, as called for by the style guidelines. But, when I poured the beer, I had the perfect moment to insert the ole trombone "whaa-whaa-whaa" sound...as in "no bubbles for you, sad sack. :'("

What I later figured out is that I was serving the beer too cold. It was around 40 F...seems it kept the CO2 from effervescing...so no bubbles and flat on the palate. I brought the temperature up to 48, and started getting bubbles the next day; I also got more aroma and flavors.
I latered noticed the same effect when judging at a competition; really cold entries showed no signs of carbonation.

You could try this: get a bottle -- either cap-able or swingtop -- and chill it. Disconnect your CO2 cylinder and vent the keg until you have just enough pressure to s-l-o-w-l-y dispense beer into your chilled bottle, fill the bottle the the very top and cap or engage swign top.
Then either let the bottle slowly warm up to around 50 F, or store for a day in a fridge that stays in the high 40s. Then open and pour to see what you get bubble-wise.

I just think there must be a correlation between a beer's serving temperature and it's expression of carbonation. Too cold, seems flat; too warm, seems gushy.

Good luck.
John Wilson
Savannah Brewers League
Savannah, GA

Offline bluesman

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2010, 10:46:01 AM »
It might help to read through this manual that Gary posted in another thread, it will help you balance your system.
http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/publications/draught-quality-manual

+1 to the manual.

I would also consider using an indepedent gage (calibrated) and installing it on the keg.  This test will ensure you are really getting the pressure that you think you are getting in the keg. It will also serve as a way to pressure test your kegs.

This and can be purchased from kegkits.com

Ron Price

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2010, 10:52:22 AM »
That's a useful gadget, thanks Ron.  I'll have to build one out of a spare regulator.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline bluesman

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2010, 11:00:53 AM »
That's a useful gadget, thanks Ron.  I'll have to build one out of a spare regulator.

It certainly comes in handy.  8)
Ron Price

Offline euge

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2010, 11:37:58 AM »
That^^^ is a great idea. I do something similar already and thought of building one to monitor my primed kegs to track how the pressure builds.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline octess

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2010, 06:46:50 PM »
Thanks all!
these are all great thing to check out. :D
one thing though: I was under the impression that the colder the beer, the more soluble is the CO2... in other words if you get it chilled when carbonating, you should be able to get quicker and better carbonation?
Viva el art of brewing alchemy!

Offline octess

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2010, 06:52:51 PM »
Oh! also, I do have a couple bottled (primed with sugar) ones... I guess I'll have to crack one open to compare it!
I'll cool it down to the keg's temperature before though.
Viva el art of brewing alchemy!

Offline octess

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2010, 07:05:34 PM »
It might help to read through this manual that Gary posted in another thread, it will help you balance your system.
http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/publications/draught-quality-manual

thanks, looks like a great book.
Viva el art of brewing alchemy!

Offline bluesman

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2010, 07:45:11 PM »
Thanks all!
these are all great thing to check out. :D
one thing though: I was under the impression that the colder the beer, the more soluble is the CO2... in other words if you get it chilled when carbonating, you should be able to get quicker and better carbonation?

This is true.  The colder the beer, the better the capacity.

The amount of CO2 that will dissolve into your beer is dependent on two factors - temperature and pressure. Generally ales tend to be carbonated at the lower end, 1.9 to around 2.3 volumes and lagers at around 2.4 to 2.7.  The amount of CO2 dissolved in beer is referred to in terms of volumes. Volumes of CO2 are defined as the volume the CO2 gas would occupy if it were removed from the beer at atmospheric pressure and 0° C, compared to the original volume of beer. Most American beers contain roughly 2.5 volumes of CO2.

Here's a Kegging Carbonation Calculator.

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/carbonation.html
Ron Price

Offline octess

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2010, 10:23:17 PM »
once more: thanks!
 ;)ß
Viva el art of brewing alchemy!

Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2010, 06:50:00 AM »
Thanks all!
these are all great thing to check out. :D
one thing though: I was under the impression that the colder the beer, the more soluble is the CO2... in other words if you get it chilled when carbonating, you should be able to get quicker and better carbonation?

My apologies octess, I certainly did not mean to confuse the issue. Yes, it's true: the colder the beer, the more soluble is the CO2...you've made no error there.

I was just voicing my own belief that it may also hold true that the colder the beer, the slower the CO2  will come out of solution, making the beer seem flat. To use an analogy: it's easy to attach a really strong magnet to a piece of iron, but difficult to pull it back off.

My own practice now is to chill the beer to the correct serving temperature, and dial my pressure in based on a table/calculator like the one bluesman turned you onto. (Correct serving temperature is a whole other topic, that dosn't just break down based on "ale vs. lager")

But, as always, everyone's mileage may vary, and personal preferances make us the individuals we are...so I'm sure given time and trial, you'll find what works for you.

Cheers!
John Wilson
Savannah Brewers League
Savannah, GA

Offline octess

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2010, 07:39:58 PM »
My apologies octess, I certainly did not mean to confuse the issue. Yes, it's true: the colder the beer, the more soluble is the CO2...you've made no error there.

I was just voicing my own belief that it may also hold true that the colder the beer, the slower the CO2  will come out of solution, making the beer seem flat.

Not to worry at all! I actually got the picture!
updates on the bubbles:
pressure has been up to 28 PSI for 4 days and bubbles are starting to appear normal! so I've turned the pressure down to 18 PSI, vented the keg a little and the pour seems nice now. Oh! I also turned the temperature down to 5 celcius degrees...I thought it was there but it actually was at 10 degrees... perhaps the extra length of time to get the CO2 dissolved was justified for the temperature control mistake... my bad! ;)
Viva el art of brewing alchemy!

Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: fizz problem...
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 07:23:29 AM »

updates on the bubbles:
pressure has been up to 28 PSI for 4 days and bubbles are starting to appear normal!

That's great!         But of course now you're quickly on your way to hearing that awful sound a keg makes as the 'last glass' comes out.   :'(

(My update: I think the flatness issue I was seeing related more to bottled beer and kegs that are at a 'set' volume of CO2. Because they posses 'fixed' volumes of CO2, they will only seem properly carbonated when served at the temperature that corresponds to that fixed CO2 volume.
Of course, I may not have looked deeper into this had you not posed your question...so thanks)
John Wilson
Savannah Brewers League
Savannah, GA