[phillamb168]

I was wondering when the board would start a discussion about the TSA. Here's where I come from:

1. These pat downs ARE NOT the pat downs of old - they're the new, improved, "enhanced" pat down, meaning that instead of brushing with the back of the hand to the point where they're -next- to the groin area, they actually touch you there. I'm sorry, but since when does a government agency have a right to touch me there without me being under arrest? Just because I choose to fly does not mean that I have to undergo the same procedures as someone who's being -incarcerated-.

BTW - for those of you who say "you don't have to fly:" Yes, actually, I -do- have to fly because a transatlantic voyage by boat takes a bit more time than one by plane. Also, from a civil rights perspective, the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that, as citizens, we have a right to travel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law). By saying "if you don't submit to these procedures, you can't board the plane" you are denying me freedom of movement.

2. The first option for enhanced screening, these backscatter x-ray machines, are -not- safe. They have -not- been tested thoroughly. (http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html) The only reason they even EXIST is that a whole bunch of money is being poured into congress by way of the lobbyists who work for the people who make these things: http://washingtonexaminer.com/nation/2010/11/naked-scanners-lobbyists-join-war-terror

3. Actually, just read the whole post here, from security expert Bruce Schneier: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/11/tsa_backscatter.html

4. Israel and "profiling:" Let me say this. The 'profiling' that the highly-trained individuals at Ben Gurion and other aiports utilize is NOT in ANY WAY the sort of profiling that you'd get from $12/hr TSA employees. Here's a great article on how they do their screening: http://www.forward.com/articles/122781/

The idea that any of what the TSA is doing is actually making people safer is hogswallop. They exist to provide people with the illusion of security - they're entirely reactive, as opposed to proactive, and what that tells me is that they're only caring about protecting people from what they already know about, as opposed to what might be happening.

Someone said earlier that 9/11 couldn't happen again because of passenger attitude. This is 100% correct, in my opinion. Look at what happened to the underwear bomber guy - he got the s*** kicked out of him and the only thing he succeeded in blowing up was his own weewee. Passenger attitudes, plus the reinforcement of cockpit doors, are the things keeping us safe. Look, AQAP isn't even trying to put people on planes any more, they're now putting printer cartridges in cargo planes. BTW, if you want further evidence of the TSA's security theater, they banned printer cartridges from planes after that happened. Can you see the stupid from here? I sure can.

Finally, back to the whole backscatter/groping stuff. Do you have kids? Watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4


No way in hell I'm having my child have to go through this. And I suspect many others wouldn't, either. Don't have kids? Read these:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/
http://www.darkpolitricks.com/2010/11/sanitary-towel-prompts-tsa-to-grope-sexual-assault-victim/
http://www.ifeminists.net/print.php?news.17770
http://www.2012electionyear.com/2010/11/elderly-woman-with-2-artificial-knees-describes-sexual-assault-by-tsa-in-st-louis-i-was-shaking-crying-i-likened-it-to-being/

Somewhere in Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden is laughing so hard, goat milk is coming out of his nose.

[phillamb168]

I'm with punatic and some others, it is invasive and doesn't really do anything to keep us safe.  But if they insist, I don't want to be shot with radiation and I don't want them touching me, but I wouldn't mind stripping down if they really want to know what I'm hiding.

Racial profiling does not work and studies show it can actually make the officers jobs harder to do.  What does work, and what the Israeli's do is behavioral profiling.  Every single person is questioned and their answers and manner are evaluated.

There doesn't seem to be any logic to some of these things either, I don't remember where I first read it but check out this story:
TSA confiscates heavily-armed soldiers' nail-clippers

The bottom line is, I don't believe it makes us safer.  Harden the cockpit door, and the pilot can land if there's any trouble in the cabin.  And if there is, they can just depressurize the cabin and drop the air masks, that will keep trouble makers close to a seat . . .

Exactly.

If you ask someone making $12 an hour to spot a potential terrorist, they'll pick the guy in the thawb, or the lady in the burqa. They won't pick the clean-shaven olive-skinned gentleman in the $1,000 suit, because he speaks perfect English and has a (forged) Israeli passport.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Bayou Classic to assemble!

[punatic]

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before."

Rahm Emanuel

... like expand government and public sector unions.

[uthristy]

I was wondering when the board would start a discussion about the TSA. Here's where I come from:

1. These pat downs ARE NOT the pat downs of old - they're the new, improved, "enhanced" pat down, meaning that instead of brushing with the back of the hand to the point where they're -next- to the groin area, they actually touch you there.

I ranted before but deleted the post. 

2007 while flying out of MCO heading to Schiphol we got the SSSS on our BP, just f##king great. So we get the extra treament EVERYTHING wiped, carry-on is pulled out searched, camera is turned on WHY?, cell phone was checked and then came the pat down.

Lets just say its a balling cupping experience with the palm on the hands.

Every trip since then is the same and now its going to be the norm for people who refuse the scanners

------
As I posted before my wife will never fly in the USA after yrs of getting the Xtra treatment when flying for her job, she is now payed to drive

[uthristy]

What is up with these protests? What do people want? I just dont get it. When the planes are hijacked everyone points the finger at lackadaisical security.

Hate to tell you but some of us value our rights and enough is enough, the dam scanners don't make us safer, Nappy` said it herself the underware bomber probably would NOT have been caught using the scanners. The makers said the same, Italy tested every make and found they ALL FAILED, a German tv show defeated the scanner,Israel airport security expert calls them "useless".

Looking at naked pictures of children is pedophilia, when the government demands that citizens submit to either a peep show of their person or a grope  that's  messed up .. and my only fear there's more people like you , not the so-called terrorist. Little kids getting fondled by strangers is ok with you I see.


-Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory said the group did not evaluate the advanced imaging machines for passenger safety. "That was not our role," .>> so much for being proven safe.


What happens if the next bomb is in the ass? Would you be willing to get a probe? This is not a joke and is the next step with bombers, already been tested and it works. So will you bendover and let some person probe your body? > http://tinyurl.com/28umrqa

Now lets talk about the terrorist, they tell us that they're everywhere and yet TSA has never caught 1. So this means a couple things- the threat is wayy overblown or TSA is a failure. But if they can't stop them then why isn't there planes dropping out of the sky daily?

TSA ranges anywhere from 60 to 90%  failure rate, and again why isn't there planes dropping.
> http://tinyurl.com/23tsmw9


Now what? don't like it then take the train or drive is a great line but TSA already has started with trains,buses and is now working on highways with truckers.

2005, VIPER teams began to patrol Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor and Los Angeles rail lines, ferries in Washington state, bus stations in Houston, and mass transit systems in Atlanta, Philadelphia, Washington and Baltimore. “We just want to develop the capability to enhance security outside of aviation,” air marshal spokesman David Adams told the Associated Press on December 14 of that year.


Just ask yourself how much are you willing to give up to this so-called threat that when judge by the facts is a falsehood.

Did you drive today? take a shower or bath? all proven to be killers and yet you accept those risk, why?

Always in great Britain, and always grilled -
In England you have to face a gauntlet of questions before they let you on a plane.

Every time in the Netherlands where I always stop off before flying onward. Always being about 7 times. They always came up to me and very politely asked, "May I search you? "-

Just what the hell are you doing to get this? Been going to NL since 94 along with many of my friends and none have ever been searched in England,Belgium,Germany,NL  They only do a simple pat down or scan if flying back to the usa.
  I'm calling BS.

I have dark skin/hair and look rather shady at times  and yet  its always the same in EU> Goedemorgen , welcome back after looking at our passports or just a simple  Hallo, enjoy your stay

Should tell ya about friends smoking hash just outside the front door at Schiphol  before heading back home,talk about stinking of pot 

Are Americans stupid or what?

Look in the mirror as your very uninformed about TSA.

Some  info from frequent flyers >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security-222/


Sample of TSA work>
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14874085-post5.html

# of traffic accident deaths in 2009: 33,963
# of US deaths from aviation terrorism in the US in 2009: 0

If you really want to be "safe" you should never leave home. In fact, please do so the rest of us that understand risk/reward is a part of life can move about freely.

*Figures sourced from Bureau of Labor Statistics, CDC, and FBI



TSA check point


Closer pic>


Israeli airport security model
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_is.html


"You gave up a lot of your rights when you bought a ticket" - TSA


TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/?ocid=twitter



Charlotte airport director wants TSA out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzbJknJvrBI


TSA - coming to a train/subway/bus station near you
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Random-Pat-Downs-Turn-PATCO-Into-Police-State-102443699.html

Adam Savage says "WTF, TSA?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4


TSA searches passengers who ride the Greyhound bus
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=13407686


I want to take TSA to the next level," Pistole
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-07-16-tsa16_ST_N.htm


When will Americans declare the Transportation Security Administration a terrorist organization?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704496104575627151860149756.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Don't like then take the train, oh wait>
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro-


TSA agent abducts woman (from ATL) and rapes her...
http://wsbradio.com/localnews/2010/11/tsa-staffer-accused-in-abducti.html


Inspector General Reports TSA Poorly Trained
http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2010/11/17/tsa-training-lacking-investigators-find/

IU Law School Professor: TSA policies "handing terrorists a victory"
http://cacr.iu.edu/sites/cacr.iu.edu/files/TSA-Policy.pdf

 Object to new TSA procedures? Consider yourself a domestic extremist
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30286

GAO: "It remains unclear whether the AIT would have detected the weapon used in the December 2009 [underwear bomber] incident...
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/11/23/ac.body.scanners.ineffective.cnn.html

CNN report on physicians concerns:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/23/holiday.travel.medical/index.html?hpt=C1

TSA Scans "Won't Catch Anybody" - Popular Mechanics Interview
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/tsa-scans-security-theater-interview

TSA: Too many Sex Addicts
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle556-20100207-03.html


An ABC News employee said she was subject to a "demeaning" search at Newark Liberty International Airport Sunday morning.

"The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around," she said. "It was basically worse than going to the gynecologist. It was embarrassing. It was demeaning. It was inappropriate."
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/tsa-responds-passenger-outrages-underwear-search-happen/story?id=12208932

________________________________
When you arrive at MCO you must get rescreened once you've cleared Customs and Immigration just to leave the airport. This is after getting screened to fly in the first place 

My last trip(aug) the nudie-scanners were not there yet, just normal security- shoes off, airport metal detector,xray your carry-on and random patdowns. Yes we both got pulled aside for another ball cupping / crotch  grope.

Never knew I could refuse, hmm wait till the next trip coming up


Scanning Now Required For Returning U.S. Citizens?
http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Money not safety>
http://tinyurl.com/3xlwpzw
-
Peter Rez,In an interview with MSNBC he noted that the risk of being in a terrorist attack is so small that any additional cancer risk from the scanners - which is also very tiny - is hardly worth it. (re:Scanners)

Waste of time & money for what?
http://www.slate.com/id/2275448


Forgot to add this gem, if the new pat down was so needed than why wait 10months? Next if the scanners are needed than why shut most off during Thanksgiving travel? Same for the pat downs, very few reports of people getting the grope.


Let not forget, if theres no female screener and they need to search your wife/daughter/mother/little girl then a MALE will have his hands up in her crotch, till they hit the .....  Still feel thats ok ?



-------
A blood-boiling video>
 TSA Breast Milk Screening Harassment Updated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhnZlmLGK8







This is a classic >
 TSA intimidated Ron Paul Campain Supporter at Airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbbgtuAKtg&feature=related

[SwashBuckling Drunk]

While the TSA has its issues, the Border Patrol is on it- they found marijuana on Willie Nelson's bus http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_en_ot/us_nelson_marijuana

I feel so much safer knowing our tax dollars are being spent to protect us from crotch bombs and a stoned Willie Nelson

[denny]

This is getting dangerously close the line of discussing political issues.  For this thread to stay open, please carefully direct your comments.

[dean]

Jmo... PROFILING should be used rather than suspecting every "citizen" wanting to board a plane.  If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck... chances are that its a duck... see http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html

Any government that begins suspecting its own people entirely is on the verge of tyranny/dictatorship/communism... and or collapse is probably imminent... if it looks like a duck.  Don't play the "PC" card because it always ends up the same... going nowhere, the problem becomes greater, more lives and dollars are spent protecting something nobody believes is right and yet are too PC to admit it for fear of losing favors or looking like they are ignorant when everyboyd knows the PC rules are literally ignorant of everyone else. etc. etc.  If people want to be PC... give America back to the Indians and let them decide how to handle who should and shouldn't be allowed, etc.  Of course... My post will probably be deleted because I said what everybody else Thinks.   

[capozzoli]

Before this thread gets locked I just want to apologize. Im sorry for posting this and I am sorry for not being completely honest.

I was drunk, frustrated and just played the devils advocate to provoke. That was wrong. I understand that this is not the forum for this debate and I am truly sorry.

Im not really a COMPLETE idiot, I swear.

Drinking and posting dont mix.

[denny]

Thanks, Capp.  I think it's time for a lock.