[capozzoli]

What is up with these protests? What do people want? I just dont get it. When the planes are hijacked everyone points the finger at lackadaisical security. Now that they are trying to raise security people complain? Am I missing something? I understand if you dont want to get x-ray but why protest a pat down?

Are Americans stupid or what?

Go to Europe, they pat you down at random, and no one complains. In England you have to face a gauntlet of questions before they let you on a plane. Isnt this the way it should be if we are going to prevent trouble?

It should be a strip search, I say pat em down, all of em. And if you dont want to be patted down then you should forfeit what you paid for your ticket and be removed from the airport.

[punatic]

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."

Benjamin Franklin

[tubercle]

Not to make light of the situation but Tubercle wonders if would be OK to run down to the airport on his lunch hour for a free groping? Do you have to buy a ticket first or can you just get in line?

 OK, maybe this is making light of the situation

[beerocd]

All seats should be vynil on the airplanes, leather in first class.
Everyone travels in spedos and two piece bikinis.

All that's left is a cavity search -
you can fit quite a bit of explosives inside a body.

So you're never safe against someone who's really determined.

[capozzoli]

So, because you can stuff explosives up your ass there should be no searching? They shouldn't move forward with other forms of security like explosive detectors?

I think searching narrows the field a little.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."

Benjamin Franklin

I do like Ben Franklin, (even though I have "almost" peed on his grave a few times), but how is being searched giving up freedom?

You can be searched or you are free to choose not to be searched. You can just drive, or in some peoples case; boat.

[weazletoe]

I've been flying a lot since this spring, and i've been through the new "see you naked" x-rays, and felt up. whatever it takes man, keep us safe. Just like the old days in school, one kid in class acts like an idiot, and everyone pays for it. Just a sign of the times.

[a10t2]

I think it's the combination of an invasion of privacy with the fact that it still isn't particularly effective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4

[punatic]

This is just the Feds testing to see how far the sheep will go before they start pushing back.

A solution to a problem is not THE solution to a problem.  

You can kill rats with a C-RAM, but a 22 pistol with rat shells does the job just fine with a lot less bother and expense.

Let us not forget this little bit of pesky business,

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

[capozzoli]

Maybe I am wrong, wouldn't be the first time for sure.  I just dont see the problem and I dont travel enough to see the inconvenience. They always patted me down going into rock concerts as a kid. They never found what I was hiding so it didnt bother me I guess. Maybe that is the problem.

Just seems to me that people want security but they dont want the inconvenience that goes along with it.

I personally dont feel that my rights or freedoms are violated if they search me before getting on a plane. I have never been patted down on an American flight but I have been singled out and patted down several times flying around in Europe. Once I was singled out and strip searched arriving in Hungary. Never figured out why. drugs?

An airplane is privately owned and I have the choice not to go there. Now, if they come into my house to search, or search my person on the street for no reason that is a different story. Do you think that is where this will lead?

[tubercle]

Don't have a problem with the airport search because it is my choice to fly or not. Just hope it doesn't propagate into other areas of my life, like the house I live in or the life style i choose to live, or the streets I choose to walk down.

 May I see your papers?

[maxieboy]

Now, if they come into my house to search, or search my person on the street for no reason that is a different story. Do you think that is where this will lead?

Many people would argue(with some merit) yes. We MUST be extremely vigilant about the erosion of our rights. Remember the saying about how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time....
We are very fortunate to live in a country where we can(and must) question what our gov't is doing.

[vista]

the amount of time it took me to read this thread i probably could have been pulled aside, searched, and been on my merry way. big...freakin....woop. get over it.

[capozzoli]

That would be my concern too tubercle.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I think the fourth amendment was meant to protect people in criminal investigations but Im not sure.

If there is a fire in your house when you are not home, and the police and firemen crash in to put it out are they violating the fourth amendment?

When you go to an airport and get on a plane you are knowingly exposing your person to the public. You are also entering a privately owned space where the individuals who own it are able to set the rules.

Another example: Does the first amendment apply in this or any forum?No, the owners or administrators are able to set the rules regardless of the Bill of Rights. We cant just post anything we want here.

When you enter an airport you are entering private property owned by someone else, right? They can set the rules as to what you may have on your person. Since people can not be just trusted to obey the rules that searches should be given.

"What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection. But what he seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected. That is, the “capacity to claim the protection of the Amendment depends not upon a property right in the invaded place but upon whether the area was one in which there was reasonable expectation of freedom from governmental intrusion."

= if you dont want to be searched dont go to an airport.

[rabid_dingo]

...
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The 4th doesn't apply at the airport. You are voluntarily walking into an area that is designated secure. To be granted access to the secure area you are granting access to yourself and property. Here is the kicker. YOU CAN DENY THE SEARCHES AND PAT DOWNS...but they reserve the right to say..."Ok then. You don't go"

My favorite part about all of this, the airlines are frequently blamed for what the security checkpoints
do. Airlines are only tenants at buildings that are land-lorded by the FAA and DOT.


New TSA slogans to appear friendlier.

It is not a grope, it is a freedom pat...
Grope discount available...
You don't fly unless you drop your fly...
Can't see London, Can't see France, unless we see your underpants.
Touchin'; Squeezin'; Arrestin'
We handle more junk than Waste Management.

[punatic]

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.  Invasion of privacy is invasion of privacy. 

Slicing and dicing where rights apply and don't is ludicrous.  If you are in the United States the Bill of Rights apply.

So I repeat:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."