Author Topic: Shipping Beer  (Read 4582 times)

Offline hokerer

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2013, 05:06:00 PM »
Has the AHA addressed the legality of all the clubs that'll be bringing homebrew into the state?

I would have to imagine so.  Being able to transport homebrew in WA held up having the conference there until the law was changed.  I can't imagine that it would be different in PA.

Yeah, I assumed something had been done about it.  Was mostly curious how whatever it was that was done was done.
Joe

Offline garyg

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2013, 10:00:16 AM »
According to PA law, homebrew can be used for organized events and there is no specific limit placed on how much can be transported for such events. 

Prior to the law being changed in Washington, there was a prohibitively small limit on the amount of homebrew that could be transported.
Gary Glass
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Offline jwaldner

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2013, 04:16:22 PM »
According to PA law, homebrew can be used for organized events and there is no specific limit placed on how much can be transported for such events. 

Prior to the law being changed in Washington, there was a prohibitively small limit on the amount of homebrew that could be transported.

Gary, is there anything being done about being able to ship through FedEx or UPS without violating their policies or state laws?

I know it's against their policies (FedEx/UPS) but I believe their policies are based on state/federal distribution laws prohibiting shipments. In addition, it creates a moral dilemma for some eventhough it's suggested someone either omit information when shipping or try and convince the shipper it's not actually beer but a yeast sample.

Regarding the upcoming conference and competition, according to this link (http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/cons/groups/system_internet/documents/webasset/000820.pdf) it appears PA forbids the shipment into the state. I think it would be great if the AHA looked into this for the benefit of it's members and to try and keep things on the up and up with all shippers and states. Cheers!

Offline a10t2

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2013, 04:41:24 PM »
Quote from: 47 PA 4-491
It shall be unlawful--
...
(2) For any person, except a manufacturer or the board or the holder of a sacramental wine license or of an importer's license, to possess or transport any liquor or alcohol within this Commonwealth which was not lawfully acquired prior to January first, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-four, or has not been purchased from a Pennsylvania Liquor Store or a licensed limited winery in Pennsylvania, except in accordance with section 488 or the board's regulations.

Emphasis mine. Sounds legal to me.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2013, 08:47:37 PM »
Quote from: 47 PA 4-491
It shall be unlawful--
...
(2) For any person, except a manufacturer or the board or the holder of a sacramental wine license or of an importer's license, to possess or transport any liquor or alcohol within this Commonwealth which was not lawfully acquired prior to January first, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-four, or has not been purchased from a Pennsylvania Liquor Store or a licensed limited winery in Pennsylvania, except in accordance with section 488 or the board's regulations.

Emphasis mine. Sounds legal to me.
Not sure you read that right.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2013, 10:22:02 PM »
Prior to the law being changed in Washington, there was a prohibitively small limit on the amount of homebrew that could be transported.
it was 1 gallon, and then it could only be tasted by judges. ::)
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2013, 05:29:48 AM »
Civil disobedience is sometimes required to get laws changed.  To me, it is not a moral dilemma.  Laws are not necessarily based on morality.  $$$ speak very loudly in politics.
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Offline micsager

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2013, 09:27:34 AM »
Civil disobedience is sometimes required to get laws changed.  To me, it is not a moral dilemma.  Laws are not necessarily based on morality.  $$$ speak very loudly in politics.

+1, but you must be willing to accept the ramifactions from such disobedience. 

Offline redbeerman

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 09:55:50 AM »
Civil disobedience is sometimes required to get laws changed.  To me, it is not a moral dilemma.  Laws are not necessarily based on morality.  $$$ speak very loudly in politics.

+1, but you must be willing to accept the ramifactions from such disobedience.

Absolutely, nothing is free.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2013, 11:02:42 AM »
Civil disobedience is sometimes required to get laws changed.  To me, it is not a moral dilemma.  Laws are not necessarily based on morality.  $$$ speak very loudly in politics.

+1, but you must be willing to accept the ramifactions from such disobedience.

Absolutely, nothing is free.

I gotta say, sending beer through UPS and saying it is yeast sample doesn't really qualify as civil disobedience in my mind. It's just trying to get one over on the authorities. Nothing wrong with that but it's different.

Sending beer through the USPS and labeling it BEER in large letters on the outside of the package might qualifiy as civil disobedience though.

as far as I know sending beer via FedEx or UPS is simple going against corporate policy in which case have at. their policy is not my law. perhaps shipping booze into states that do not allow shipping booze is breaking the actual law so that's different and each person must decide for themselves if that is something they are willing to do.
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Offline garyg

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Re: Shipping Beer
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 08:34:38 AM »
Gary, is there anything being done about being able to ship through FedEx or UPS without violating their policies or state laws?

We have tried getting FedEx and UPS to change their policies, but those discussions never got very far.  We briefly were able to get DHL to say they would accept shipments of homebrew, but that was short lived. 

The AHA is working through the Brewers Association on shipping homebrew for competitions at the federal level. I can't go into any more detail than that at this point.

State shipping laws are primarily aimed at ensuring the state collects tax revenue on alcohol purchases and preventing alcohol from being shipped to minors.  Homebrew shipped for competitions doesn't fall under either of those two issues.  We have not yet seen any state shipping laws being interpreted to ban shipment of homebrew for organized affairs, like competitions.  That could happen, but is unlikely, unless homebrew ends up in the hands of minors or gets serve to the public or something along those lines. 

Changing state alcohol shipping laws would be very complicated - I think much more so than legalizing homebrewing or adjusting state laws to allow for club meetings and competitions.  For now, the AHA is focusing it's attention on legislation aimed at legalizing homebrewing in Alabama and Mississippi and addressing issues that arise around homebrewing rights like serving homebrew at club meetings and at competitions.
Gary Glass
American Homebrewers Association Director
Boulder, Colorado