Author Topic: Mash Out?  (Read 9449 times)

Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2010, 06:10:12 pm »
Yeah, I usually fly sparge too, but I've had occasional problems with output when the water builds up on top.  Glad to hear it isn't widespread.
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Offline dak0415

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2010, 06:54:41 pm »
I fly sparge most of my beers.  I will go up to about 4 gallons above my grain bed on occasions with no ill effects

Sometimes  see that the grain bed is floating so I let it settle on to the false bottom  and initially I'll drain until the wort level goes just below/at the surface of the grain bed.  After that I add my sparge water usually at least 12 inches above the grain bed.  Never had a problem.
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Do you acidify your sparge water, or is your water very soft?
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Offline bonjour

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2010, 07:44:48 pm »
Very soft Great Lakes water, approaching Pilzen
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Offline denny

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2010, 09:57:33 pm »
And regarding the issue with Batch spargers, they are draining all the wort from the bed.  Recall that I mentioned that the water pressure acts on all surfaces.  As we drain the bed, then a portion of the bed is above the liquid surface and instead being partially supported by the water pressure, that grain is applying all its soggy weight to the rest of the bed.  That can certainly compress the bed and is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging.  Don't drain the bed until the final runoff.

Maybe from a theoretical standpoint, but in 389 batch sparges, it's never happened to me.  The odds are in my favor, Marin.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2010, 10:09:27 pm »
And regarding the issue with Batch spargers, they are draining all the wort from the bed.  Recall that I mentioned that the water pressure acts on all surfaces.  As we drain the bed, then a portion of the bed is above the liquid surface and instead being partially supported by the water pressure, that grain is applying all its soggy weight to the rest of the bed.  That can certainly compress the bed and is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging.  Don't drain the bed until the final runoff.

Maybe from a theoretical standpoint, but in 389 batch sparges, it's never happened to me.  The odds are in my favor, Marin.

Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D

Offline tubercle

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2010, 10:15:32 pm »
And regarding the issue with Batch spargers, they are draining all the wort from the bed.  Recall that I mentioned that the water pressure acts on all surfaces.  As we drain the bed, then a portion of the bed is above the liquid surface and instead being partially supported by the water pressure, that grain is applying all its soggy weight to the rest of the bed.  That can certainly compress the bed and is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging.  Don't drain the bed until the final runoff.

Maybe from a theoretical standpoint, but in 389 batch sparges, it's never happened to me.  The odds are in my favor, Marin.

Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D

  It actually does compress...and squeezes all the sugary goodness out of the grain. ;D
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Offline denny

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2010, 10:28:14 pm »
Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D

When experience disagrees, experience wins. 
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Offline narvin

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2010, 10:57:02 pm »

And regarding the issue with Batch spargers, they are draining all the wort from the bed.  Recall that I mentioned that the water pressure acts on all surfaces.  As we drain the bed, then a portion of the bed is above the liquid surface and instead being partially supported by the water pressure, that grain is applying all its soggy weight to the rest of the bed.  That can certainly compress the bed and is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging.  Don't drain the bed until the final runoff.

This is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging?  Really?  Even if people who batch sparge all the time generally have no trouble with grain compression during lautering?  And even if they did, would it not be prudent to investigate ways to mitigate this problem (wider, shallower mash tun, or rice hulls) before coming to this conclusion? 

It really amazes me how many scientists let their preconceptions color their results.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2010, 11:00:04 pm »
Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D

When experience disagrees, experience wins. 

And the very reason we should be open to ALL suggestions and comments made by brewers, regardless of their backgrounds or experimental procedures.

Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2010, 11:19:46 pm »
Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D

When experience disagrees, experience wins. 

And the very reason we should be open to ALL suggestions and comments made by brewers, regardless of their backgrounds or experimental procedures.

Yep. I'll bet the first guy to suggest that the world is round was soundly thumped by his friends...but we know now he was a visionary! (Though maybe an ex-communicated visionary) ::)
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2010, 05:10:58 am »
Science isn't always the final word, is it?  :D
When experience disagrees, experience wins. 
Science is never wrong, just scientists :)

Martin makes a valid point, it just might not apply on a homebrew scale because the bed depth is probably 2 feet at most for the large majority of us.  Batch sparging on a 30 bbl system might not be so smooth and easy as homebrewers find it to be.  In all of these discussions people need to keep in mind that the equipment itself makes a difference, not just the procedures.

Yep. I'll bet the first guy to suggest that the world is round was soundly thumped by his friends...but we know now he was a visionary! (Though maybe an ex-communicated visionary) ::)
That the Earth is round and orbits the sun was known by the Greeks long before anyone was being excommunicated. :)
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2010, 05:12:49 am »
The world is flat where I live.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2010, 05:14:02 am »
And I, for one, welcome our intergalactic overlords. ;D
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Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2010, 02:21:21 pm »
That the Earth is round and orbits the sun was known by the Greeks long before anyone was being excommunicated. :)

And the Greeks gave us the starting point for Western philosophy, and so improved our ability to debate homebrewing philosophy.  :D

The world is flat where I live.

Love it! Deadpan humor deserves a rim shot: http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Mash Out?
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2010, 02:58:43 pm »
And regarding the issue with Batch spargers, they are draining all the wort from the bed.  Recall that I mentioned that the water pressure acts on all surfaces.  As we drain the bed, then a portion of the bed is above the liquid surface and instead being partially supported by the water pressure, that grain is applying all its soggy weight to the rest of the bed.  That can certainly compress the bed and is a good reason why you should not perform batch sparging.  Don't drain the bed until the final runoff.

So if I hear you correctly Martin, what you are saying is that as the grain bed becomes exposed to the atmosphere during lautering, the wort logged grain portion exposed to the atmosphere applies a downward force onto the grain bed beneath the wort level and can potentially disrupt the grain bed allowing particles to flow out of the bed into the kettle...right?

I'll buy that... but how significant can this be if it's actually occurring...that's the real question.
Ron Price