Author Topic: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?  (Read 1236 times)

Offline beerrat

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can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« on: December 10, 2010, 06:56:47 PM »
Have a recipe that calls for crystal 80, but have only 40L on hand.  Can I roast crystal in oven for x time to make 40 into 80?

Been looking on web, but found no info. 

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 10:05:35 PM »
You could try. Crystal malts are kilned wet though, so you won't get the same results from dry kilning. Maybe it'll be close; I don't know.
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Offline gordonstrong

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 07:09:04 AM »
I doubt it would work.  You will get different flavors, but I don't think they'll match.  Crystal malts get flavor from caramelized sugar and you aren't going to get caramelization by toasting.  You'll get toasted flavors.

Does it really matter for your recipe, though?  What style is it, and how much crystal malt does it need?  In a lot of cases, it really doesn't matter much.
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Offline beerrat

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2010, 11:28:33 AM »
Gordon,  Good point, in this recipe I don't think its going to matter.  I actually have crystal 45 for a oatmeal stout which called for 80. Since I'm going to make it a chocolate stout, I'm not looking for color, just some body and mouth feel and given only 1/2 pound for a 5gal batch, but given a choc stout, not sure it matters.  Otherwise assume may lose some carmel flavor.

Using this as my reference: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Crystal_malt

As always, thank you all for the advice.  Gotta love this forum!

Offline skyler

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 02:09:34 AM »
40L and 80L are not so dissimilar, IMO. I consider them both medium crystal (albeit at opposite ends). In a dark beer, I would sub one for the other in a heartbeat. I find that 40L is more "caramely" and 80L more "fruity," to be honest. But the difference is slight. My big revelation was when I found how much better my IPA got when I switched out Briess 60L for Fawcett 65L. When I switched out Briess 40L for Briess 80L in a black IPA, the difference was unnoticeable.

Offline sharg54

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2011, 08:13:51 PM »
I don't think it would work being as the sugar has already been caramelized but you can take a good base malt and turn it into crystal. I found that MO works the best but any good 2 row will work. If you want to give it a try this is all you have to do. Take your base malt and soak it in distilled water for about 4 hours don't use tap the choline will jack it up  . Keep it in the fridg covered and stir it about every hour and only use enough water to just cover the grain.  After it has soaked drain off the excess water and put it into a zip-lock bag and pull as much air out of is as you can. I use the wife's vacuum and a straw to get the air out. Make it about a half inch thick in the bag.  Put it in your mash turn at 156 deg. for an hour and mash it whole. Preheat your oven to 260 and place your grain on a cookie sheet covered with alum. foil with the shinny side up about 3\8 of an inch deep or less. About a pound to a pound and a half works best. Put it in the oven for two hours or until dry and stir about every half hour. It takes me about 2 hours to make a batch of 80L and a little longer to make a 120. It's going to start crackling but don't freak as that is only the sugar caramelizing. If you don't have a blower oven you can crack the door to help it dry out a little faster.  I have made crystal 40 to 120 this way a few times and it turns out very good, you just have to work with the time to get a feel for it. I have even taken some of it down to the home brew shop I go to and tested it against what they sell and I can't tell the difference.   ;)     
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 08:43:33 PM »
That's pretty cool. Any concern that the ziplock bag leaches chemicals into the grain?  What about using a covered pot in the oven at 170F for example? The inside of the pot wouldn't quite reach that, but you can put a tem probe in there.

Kai

Offline sharg54

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 08:51:52 PM »
you can do that but you will need a probe thermometer to keep track of the heat. I haven't had a problem with the zip locks I don't think it gets hot enough to be a problem.
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Offline sharg54

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2011, 10:28:49 AM »
Kaiser you got me thinking about the zip lock and heat making it leach so I looked it up to make sure I wasn't slowly killing my self. The back of the box says they can be used in the microwave and there is a hord of information on the internet for using them as cooking bags for camping and such so I would have to say mash temps are not a priblem.  :)
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 11:37:25 AM »
Sounds like sous vide cooking to me, which is basically cooking in a plastic bag at low heat.

As long as the bag doesn't get too hot, shouldn't be a problem.

I suppose a BPA free bag would be best, but I know people who cook sous vide with regular Foodsaver bags and no worries.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2011, 12:38:38 PM »
homebrewer's garden book has a whole bunch of times and temps for various kilning etc.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2011, 08:02:56 PM »
Cool info. Thank you
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Offline sharg54

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2011, 11:40:49 PM »
I get a little anal about this brewing thing and looked up special B to find out it's only a roasted caramel malt so I took some of my home made caramel 80 and roasted it at 400 degrees for 15 minuets and it came out tasting like cooked raisins. It's a little darker than special B but the taste I think will give me what I'm looking for. Can't wait to see how it turns out. :P
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Offline akr71

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Re: can I turn crystal 40 into crystal 80?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2011, 08:40:35 AM »
Cool stuff, thanks!  My brew club just got short shipped a bag of Munich 120 (supposed to be similar to Special B), so now I can make my own.

If 80L takes about 2 hrs, how long do you think it would take for 30-40L?
Andy

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