Poll

What size better bottle do you want?

I think the current, 3 gallon, 5 gallon, and 6 gallon sizes are good enough
9 (23.1%)
I use better bottles, but I want them to make a 6.5 (or larger) gallon carboy and would buy it
16 (41%)
I don't use better bottles mainly because they don't make a 6.5 (or larger) gallon carboy, but would buy better bottles if they did
14 (35.9%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Want a bigger better bottle?  (Read 3288 times)

Offline blatz

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2620
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2010, 12:49:30 PM »
I'm pretty happy with glass & don't mind the extra weight. 

everybody says that until they see one break.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline tubercle

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1639
  • Sweet Caroline
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2010, 12:55:02 PM »
What I would really like to see for safety is a glass carboy with a protective plastic coating on the outside. 

 Saran Wrap
Sweet Caroline where the Sun rises over the deep blue sea and sets somewhere beyond Tennessee

Offline ipaguy

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2010, 01:13:58 PM »
What I would really like to see for safety is a glass carboy with a protective plastic coating on the outside.

 Saran Wrap

2 or 3 200ft. rolls just might do the trick.  Thanks.  I also seem to remember that lab supply houses had these things like a plastic mesh sock or bag that would fit over jugs.  I think that there would be a market for a size to fit a carboy.  I haven't seen anything like that marketed to brewers, but will do some searching and post if I find anything.  Edit:  Think I'll invest in a good strong carboy bag.  I've read enough horror stories to think that a carboy accident is not quite as bad a being run through a wood chipper, but pretty darned close.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 02:19:46 PM by ipaguy »
Primary: gotlandsdricke/alt/dunkel hybrid
Secondary: pale barleywine,
Bottled:  Gotlandsdricke
               Oatmeal/blackberry stout
               Honey Kolsch

Offline Kirk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Sparks, NV
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2010, 03:37:20 PM »
I'd buy a 7 gallon, just for headspace.  And why not amber colored?
Kirk Howell

Offline richardt

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2010, 04:53:26 PM »
There's something magical about watching an active fermentation.
I'm no hippie, but it mesmerizes like a zymurgological lava lamp.
Far. 
Out. 
Man!

Online chezteth

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 439
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2010, 06:34:43 PM »
I really like using Better Bottles especially for the smaller weight.  I would definitely purchase some 6.5 or 7.5 gallon Better Bottles if they were available.

Offline ryang

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • Indian Hills CO
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 07:28:42 AM »
I'm pretty happy with glass & don't mind the extra weight. 

everybody says that until they see one break.

broke 2.  still don't mind.  I replaced with better bottles however.  But I still use my 4 glass carboys all the time.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2912
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 10:39:40 AM »
I love my better bottles and agree that the greatest benefit is the reduced weight.

I also use my glass carboys all the time, but that 6.5 gal glass one is HEAVY.

Never broken one while brewing.  I keep my carboys in milk crates for ease of movement and also as a limited protection against banging them directly on something.

I also put down some rubber mats on my basement floor which may or may not stop one from shattering if dropped.  Nothing fancy, just the stuff you can buy at Menards for around $12 a pack.  Much nicer than standing on concrete while brewing and/or doing laundry.

Incidentally, I've never used buckets though I can see the positives for storage and dry hopping.  It's just always been carboys for me.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline bearcat

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2010, 11:14:10 AM »
I we are looking for new product suggestions from BB-  mine would be a PET conical.    That would be accessable, light, have all the conical benefits at an affordable amount. 

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1375
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2010, 01:46:03 PM »
Why Doesn't BetterBottle . .    
   

. . . make a 26.5 liter (7 US gallons), or larger, PET carboy? – We are frequently asked, "Why not make larger PET carboys; they would sell like hotcakes?" The simple answer is that we would love to make them, if they really would sell like hotcakes. Making BetterBottle carboys involves highly sophisticated technology and production machinery and keeping the price competitive requires large production volumes and extremely efficient shipping.

There are many reasons why BetterBottle carboys have replaced glass, but our customers rank the top three as: 1) Safety, 2) Weight, and 3) Ease of cleaning, in that order. 22.7 liters (6 US gallons) of wine or beer weighs approximately 22.7 Kg, (~50 lbs) and 26.5 liters (7 US gallons) weighs approximately 26.5 Kg (~60 lbs). Winemakers and brewers cheered when 22.7 liter BetterBottle carboys, weighing just 0.68 Kg (1.5 lbs), replaced 22.7 liter glass carboys that weigh about 7.7 Kg (~17 lbs), because 30 Kg (~ 51 lbs) is as much as most people are comfortable lifting onto a counter or shelf.

Empty carboys cannot be nested the way pails can and the dimensions of BetterBottle carboys are selected with a great many parameters in mind, besides the obvious requirement for functionality. The carboys are sized so they can be efficiently palletized and so the pallets will fit into all kinds of shipping containers and trucks, with a minimum of wasted space. They are also sized so bulk-pack cartons are a just below the "large box" point at which parcel carriers charge extra. Making BetterBottle carboys a fraction larger than they are could increase their store-price significantly.

From everything we can determine, there will not be enough demand for larger carboys to offset significantly higher production and shipping costs, and they will fail as products. That being said, BetterBottle is busy working on a practical solutions that are compatible with existing BetterBottle carboys (keep checking back).

. . . make a PET conical fermenter? – Large-scale, conical fermenters, used in conjunction with filters, are definitely effective; however, on a small scale, things do not work out so well. We tested a prototype of a transparent, PET conical in our development lab and we saw what cannot be seen in opaque, or translucent, conicals. Fine particles settle on the sloping walls of the conical section and remain "stuck" there, until the liquid level reaches them during racking. Then, they contaminate the clarified wine or beer. Racking was not nearly as clean as it is with our standard BetterBottle carboys and racking adapters. There is a reason for drawing clarified wine or beer from above the sediment during small-scale racking. Nevertheless, a conical made of our PET would have many advantages compared to conicals made from polyethylene, polypropylene, or polyvinyl chloride. The PET conical would be essentially impermeable to oxygen, would not stain, would not add or transfer flavors, would be transparent, and would be a great deal easier to clean. Unfortunately, a PET conical would also cost more, making it quite impractical in view of the fact that BetterBottle racking-carboys perform better in any case.

. . . make a PET pail? – Pails made from plastics that are permeable to oxygen and that scalp flavors and stain certainly are not ideal as primary fermenters. So, why doesn't BetterBottle make a PET pail? Because it would be so prohibitively expensive, using existing technology, that stainless steel pales would be cheap by comparison. That being said, BetterBottle is constantly looking at options for making the equivalent of a Better Pail and the technology may become available in the not too distant future (keep checking back).

http://www.better-bottle.com/faq.html
Please do not reply if your an evil alien!
Thanks
Chris S.

Offline CASK1

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Jacksonville, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2010, 08:16:10 PM »
Glad to see the BB people checking in! Thanks for the info. Although I'd like an additional half gallon or so in my BB, they work great and I understand the reasoning behind the size offerings. I'm very happy to have "lost the weight" by converting from glass to BB.

Offline richardt

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Want a bigger better bottle?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2010, 10:08:55 AM »
. . . why doesn't BetterBottle make a PET pail? Because it would be so prohibitively expensive, using existing technology, that stainless steel pales would be cheap by comparison. That being said, BetterBottle is constantly looking at options for making the equivalent of a Better Pail and the technology may become available in the not too distant future (keep checking back)...

Thanks for the reply. 

Nonetheless, it would seem that, to make a "Better Bucket" out of PET, one wouldn't necessarily have to use any more PET to make a 7.5 gallon bucket than a 6 or 6.5 gallon Better Bottle.  For example, I don't need the lid to be made out of PET.  In fact, I'd be perfectly happy to use a standard HDPE lid typically used for HDPE Fermentation or Bottling buckets.  Furthermore, since Better Buckets and their lids would be stackable, bulk shipping costs should be lower, which would then mean lower costs for the end user.

What about other clear and light-weight materials, such as PolyMethylMethAcrylate (PMMA), or hybrids, or even laminates (e.g., PET interior, Acrylic or Polycarbonate Exterior)?  Has Better Bottle researched these options?