Author Topic: Saaz in a German Pils  (Read 2591 times)

Offline roguejim

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Saaz in a German Pils
« on: December 13, 2010, 10:36:52 PM »
Would it be considered outside the style guidelines to use Saaz in a German pils?

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8981
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 11:26:50 PM »
No, it works pretty well.  I like Tettnanger a lot in my N. German Pils, and it is often said to be similar to Saaz.

Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline kerneldustjacket

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 11:28:22 PM »
I'd say yes....but depending.

Depends on if the beer clearly exhibits a Saaz hop character...
And if it does, if entered into a competition would a qualified judge ding it based on the German Pilsner style guideline statement of "Hop flavor can range from low to high but should only be derived from German noble hops." I think a good judge should ding it. But that does not mean it can't be an awesome brew! Just not technically to style.

So...if brewing for pure consumption...who cares? Push the envelope.
If brewing for competition, and you really want to be in the German Pilsner category, I'd say use only noble German hops. (Edit...unless as Jeff says, the hops fool the judges who take it to be merely a "similar to Saaz" German noble hop)
If already brewed, or you still want to do it with Saaz, there's always category 23.

Say...would you call a judge who dings a German pilsner for using Saaz hops a "Style Nazi" ??????
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 11:35:26 PM by kerneldustjacket »
John Wilson
Savannah Brewers League
Savannah, GA

Offline Mikey

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 12:36:50 AM »
I can't speak for style, since I don't brew like that, but I can say that Saaz is excellent in a pils.

Offline Malticulous

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 02:50:07 AM »
I have Bohemian Pilsener I used Spalt and Sterling in and I like it. Might score mid 30's but that's what I seem to brew.

Offline bonjour

  • Administrator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1791
  • Troy, MI, 37mi, 60.9deg AR
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 03:12:28 AM »
I have Bohemian Pilsener I used Spalt and Sterling in and I like it. Might score mid 30's but that's what I seem to brew.
If I don't interpet your Spalt and Sterling as Saaz, you will be getting an out of style score in a competition for a Bohemian Pilsener.  Saaz plays a MAJOR role in defining the style. 
That said it should make an awesome beer.
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline bonjour

  • Administrator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1791
  • Troy, MI, 37mi, 60.9deg AR
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 03:58:07 AM »
Would it be considered outside the style guidelines to use Saaz in a German pils?
there is a difference between a good beer and a good beer to style.

The differences between a German Pils and a Bohemian are regional.  Both were brewed with regional ingredients, the two that are notably different are the hops and the water.  Hops first.  Saaz were grown in Bohemia, modern day Czechoslovakia, and have a spicy nose and a spicy flavor.  Bohemian Pils must exhibit the spicy character of the Saaz hops to be in style.  The water was extremely soft.

German noble hops can exhibit floral or spicy notes.  The local water has a moderate sulfate content that can enhance the bitterness of the beer.

Would Saaz be considered out of style for a German Pilsener?  Yes, if I can determine that it is Saaz and not a spicy noble German hop.  Not the easiest thing to do, so yes you can.





Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline Thirsty_Monk

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2344
  • Eau Claire WI
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 04:37:42 AM »
Fred I do not mean to be difficult but:

Saaz were grown in Bohemia, modern day Czechoslovakia, and have a spicy nose and a spicy flavor. 
Czechoslovakia existed from 1918 to 1993.
In 1993 It split into two republic Czech Republic and Slovak Republic.

Bohemian Pils must exhibit the spicy character of the Saaz hops to be in style. 
Not necessarally. There are Czech Pilsner brewed (in Czech republic) with 100% Magnum.

The water was extremely soft.
May be in Pilsen.
Bohemian pilsner is brewed in lager geographical area then just city of Plzen / Pilzen.
Water softness vary from soft to moderate.

Pilsner Urquall is a fine example of the style but there is more to Bohemian Pilsner then just Pilsner Urquell.
If you ever travel to Czech republic try to find small independent breweries.
You will discover wide array of beers that are Bohemian Pilsners and might not fit into BJCP style guidelines.

And now carry on.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline bonjour

  • Administrator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1791
  • Troy, MI, 37mi, 60.9deg AR
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 04:56:07 AM »
I was referring to the BJCP styles.
I thought that was the context of the op
There are a great many great beers outside of any style guide.

If my interpretation of the style is wrong I'll be glad to change it
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

beveragebob

  • Guest
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 06:16:52 AM »
Why not just make a Bohemian Pils? It doesn't answer your question but, if you love Saaz which many of us do then why not showcase it where appropriate?


Master of the Obvious!

Beverage Bob ;D

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8981
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 01:33:15 PM »
Last year I made a N. German pils with the following, 10 gallons.

100% Durst Pils.  Kai's Pils water profile - see his web page.

Vangaurd 2.25 oz at 60
Tettananger 2.25 at 30
Vangaurd 2.25 at 20
Saaz 4 oz. at 10

Vangaurd is a Hallertau Mittlefruh derivative that I like.  Tettnanger is spicey.  The Saaz worked with the others.  I will brew this one again, and I have Mittlefruh this year.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline bonjour

  • Administrator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1791
  • Troy, MI, 37mi, 60.9deg AR
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 02:41:35 PM »
That will make an Awesome Pils,  Bring some to the next meeting if you have some.

Going back to the OP, If you were to describe the recipe on an exam, I would use all German Noble hops and no Saaz.

On tasting during a competition, it's all in how the beer in the glass presents itself to the judges.  If it's all honey and grapes and it comes across as a German Pils, then it is a German Pils (admittedly an extreme example)
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8981
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Saaz in a German Pils
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 02:57:36 PM »
That will make an Awesome Pils,  Bring some to the next meeting if you have some.

Going back to the OP, If you were to describe the recipe on an exam, I would use all German Noble hops and no Saaz.


That one did not survive the summer months.  It is on my short list to brew.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!