Author Topic: Palmer Spreadsheet Error  (Read 8669 times)

Offline richardt

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Re: Palmer Spreadsheet Error
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2011, 11:03:49 AM »
On adding chalk: something I tried once was to crush my dark grains serpeate from the rest. I pladed them in a plastic bag and added the chalk, then shook together to coat the crushed grains. All the chalk seemed to stick to the grain bits...this was then added to the rest of the grains. My thinking was that the chalk would be right at the site where the dark grains would release their acidity,and so aid getting the chalk into solution.  So...does this sound silly? I have no means of testing if it makes any difference...no pH strips, no pH meter.

Seems logical--I might try something similar when I cold-steep my dark grains (or cap a mash) in order to keep the pH at ideal levels.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Palmer Spreadsheet Error
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2011, 11:16:03 AM »

On adding chalk: something I tried once was to crush my dark grains serpeate from the rest. I pladed them in a plastic bag and added the chalk, then shook together to coat the crushed grains. All the chalk seemed to stick to the grain bits...this was then added to the rest of the grains. My thinking was that the chalk would be right at the site where the dark grains would release their acidity,and so aid getting the chalk into solution.

So...does this sound silly? I have no means of testing if it makes any difference...no pH strips, no pH meter.

The brewing spreadsheet assumes that only 50% of the chalk is effective.  Without data, what level of effectiveness should you presume?  Baking soda and pickling lime are clearly superior because they readily dissolve.  
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Palmer Spreadsheet Error
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2011, 12:01:46 PM »

The brewing spreadsheet assumes that only 50% of the chalk is effective.  Without data, what level of effectiveness should you presume?  Baking soda and pickling lime are clearly superior because they readily dissolve. 

Up to an addition rate of about 250 mg/l (1 g/gal) it seems to be about 50% effective. In fact I brewed the same Schwarzbier recipe with dissolved and undissolved chalk and by using 50% of the undissolved chalk amount when dissolving the chalk I got about the same mash pH. (see here http://braukaiser.com/lifetype2/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=132&blogId=1)

So far I have not seen any pressing need for dissolving chalk in the brewing water other than getting something that behaves a bit more predictable. But I have brewed a number of beers with dissolved chalk so far. Believe me, if find a good reason to dissolve chalk I’ll let you guys know that you can’t brew good beer without that additional step ;)

So far the outcomes of my research have helped me, and hopefully others, to better understand the mash pH behavior that we see in practice. Unfortunately I have not found a way to make excellent beer even better.

Kai
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 12:04:05 PM by Kaiser »

Offline kerneldustjacket

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Re: Palmer Spreadsheet Error
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2011, 12:03:40 PM »

Seems logical--I might try something similar when I cold-steep my dark grains (or cap a mash) in order to keep the pH at ideal levels.

Yes...seems logical, but without experimental testing it's only just a hypothesis.


The brewing spreadsheet assumes that only 50% of the chalk is effective.  Without data, what level of effectiveness should you presume?  Baking soda and pickling lime are clearly superior because they readily dissolve.  

I tried this prior to hearing about the better effectiveness of baking soda or pickling lime. I'd hate to guess at what effectiveness it might have, as I'm certian I'd be way off.

Plus, I've long felt that chalk has a flavor/mouthfeel impact that works well with some beer styles, dry stout in particular. So I've often added some, but normally only a third to a half of what calculations suggested.
But, the only sure way to find out if there's truth to that idea is a blind triangle taste test...who knows, I may be wasting my time by adding it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 12:05:29 PM by kerneldustjacket »
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Offline oldtree

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Re: Palmer Spreadsheet Error
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2011, 05:40:37 PM »
Looking at pickling lime, it appears that there is some amount of iron in the grocery store products.  Is it a negligible amount as far as brewing and calculations?