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Author Topic: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen  (Read 5740 times)

Offline tomsawyer

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Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« on: December 18, 2010, 11:18:37 am »
I am closing in on what I want in my recipe.  I have the right sweetness and a nice balance of banana and clove.  What I am now wanting to eliminate is a bit of tartness.  It might be bitterness, I'm not sure.  I only used around 18 IBU of Tettnanger (60 and 15min additions) so I don't know if this is it.  I use Best wheat malt, not sure if this is a source of tartness.  The yeast is WY3068 starter, fermented around 64F using swamp cooler/ice bottles.  I now have a temp-controlled fermentor if that would help.  I  have upped my crystal malts to 9%, not sure if a little more sweetness would cover the tartness.

I should mention that our favorite hefes are Ayinger Ur-Weisse and Schneider Edel Weisse.

Any suggestions on what to do to remove this last little flaw in my hefeweizen?  The wife likes these so I have a real interest in getting this recipe right.  Thanks in advance for suggestions.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 11:24:38 am by tomsawyer »
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline Malticulous

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 11:35:10 am »
I get it form 3068 but still it's my favorite. I've tried different temps but it's still there. 380 is less tart (I've only used it a few times.) Honestly 300 is too. I don't think they are the exact same strain. I don't think tart is really a defect in a Hefeweizen.

Early samples of my Weazen bock have not been too tart (I used 3068 top cropped from a Hefe that is tart). Maybe it's the Munich malt? It was a no sparge triple decoction but it's not very dark.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 12:10:33 pm by Malticulous »

Offline euge

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 12:28:35 pm »
I prefer my hefe's and wheats in the 30+ IBU range. And maybe try mashing a little higher to retain some sweetness to balance the tart along with or instead of crystal? BTW does a weizen normally call for crystal? Munich or Vienna would be my first choices.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 02:02:56 pm »
I was thinking this might be a yeast issue.  I've been using WLP300 but was making drier hefes which I liked OK but not the wife.  I switched to 3086 just because so many people seem to favor it.  Maybe I'll try the 300 again, or one of the others.  I don't want a banana factory though, the hint in the nose is all we need.

I understand the traditional hefe isn't supposed to have crystal (I actually used some Caramunich) but the commercial beers mentioned seem like they must have some in them.  I can't imagine just mashing higher would get me there, that gets you more body but not sweetness right?  I am notorious for mashing low so I'm not speaking from experience there.  Maybe I'll try subbing some Munich for the base malt on the next batch.  I do think more hops might balance that tartness but I know she isn't going to like that and I make enough hoppy beers for myself.

This a a really good woman we're talking about, which is why I'm trying to get this beer tailored to her tastes.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline Mark G

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 02:27:47 pm »
I'm pretty sure the tartness comes from the yeast. I've tried WLP300 and 380, along with 3068, and always have some level of tartness. I don't have a huge sample size to give definitive results, but I think the least amount of tartness came from the 300. Personally, I like it as a hefe characteristic. I think you just need to balance it with a bit of sweetness. I usually have a total of 10% or so of the grain bill as a combination of munich and caramunich.
Mark Gres

Offline majorvices

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 05:17:33 am »
Definitely a yeast issue. But also keep in mind that wheat itself lends a certain tartness to the beer. I highly recommend WLP380 Hefe IV. Its by far my favorite hefeweizen yeast.

Whatever you do, don't make a Hefeweizen anywhere near close to 30 BUs. For an American wheat thats fine but you will have a bit of clashing going on with a German wheat beer. Keep the BUs closer to 10, no higher than 20. I recommend bittering only, no flavor or aroma.

Offline euge

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 12:39:50 pm »
I went and bought some of these wonderful beers last night.

The dunkel Ur-Weisse was significantly tarter than the helles Brau-Weisse. So maybe it is the wheat. I guess mashing higher might not result in pronounced "sweetness" but perhaps a maltier and not as dry brew.



 
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 12:41:33 pm »
That is one nice weiss lineup!
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 06:12:32 pm »
Thanks for the info.  I have 9% caramunichs in the recipe so I was hesitant to go much higher there.  I'll try a little light Munich in place of some fo the pils, reduce my IBU to 10 and get some WLP380.

Euge looks like the makings of a nice tasting!  Haven't tried the Fishers.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline hamiltont

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 06:20:07 pm »
I have to agree with Keith.  WLP380 is the best Weissbier yeast IMO! 60% Wheat & 40% Pilsner & ~10-15 IBU's. It's that simple!  A ferulic acid rest and a double decoction mash doesn't hurt either.  Cheers!!!

Edit: I forgot to mention. Underpitching a bit helps with the esters as well as letting the fermentation rise a little, but no higher than 68F
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 06:27:55 pm by hamiltont »
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 08:06:56 pm »
I'm looking at the WLP380 description and it sounds like it'd be more tart, what with the citrus notes.  But I guess its worth a shot.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline James Lorden

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2010, 09:13:44 am »
I would also consider breaking out the pH meter to see if this is a "true tartness" (i.e. the beer has low pH around 4) or if it's a percieved tartness.  If you really have low pH then there might be ways to adjust your water chemistry.  See the pH effect on finished beer thread.

As for the yeast, I brewed 10 gallons of hefe recently 1.052 OG, 60% wheat, 35% pils, 5 % caramunich II step mash 35 min at 145 45 min at 160 then mash out, 15 IBU's from 1 60 minute hallertau addition.  fermented in two seperate carboys - one with WLP 300 the other with WLP 380 at 62degrees then blended to balance banana and clove.

Scored 40 points in a local comp and tartness is mild. 
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Offline Mark G

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2010, 10:41:00 am »
I would also consider breaking out the pH meter to see if this is a "true tartness" (i.e. the beer has low pH around 4) or if it's a percieved tartness.  If you really have low pH then there might be ways to adjust your water chemistry.  See the pH effect on finished beer thread.

As for the yeast, I brewed 10 gallons of hefe recently 1.052 OG, 60% wheat, 35% pils, 5 % caramunich II step mash 35 min at 145 45 min at 160 then mash out, 15 IBU's from 1 60 minute hallertau addition.  fermented in two seperate carboys - one with WLP 300 the other with WLP 380 at 62degrees then blended to balance banana and clove.

Scored 40 points in a local comp and tartness is mild. 
Pure genius! I swear I spent half of this past summer trying to perfect my hefe by trying different yeasts, pitching rates, etc. They were all damn good beers, but not quite what I was looking for on the clove/banana balance. I'm definitely going to try blending two batches on the next go around. Thanks for the inspiration!
Mark Gres

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2010, 10:46:50 am »
I'll measure the pH tonight.  I'm not sure if this last hefe was brewed after I'd started using Palmer's spreadsheet to adjust my water.  I will employ lactic acid but try to keep it under 5ml per 5gal batch.  I think my tap water is about right for the golden colored beer anyway.

Excellent suggestion on blending.  The pondered this last night.  We do like a little banana in the mix which is why I'd been using 300, so if I could brew something with pronounced banana and then blend at a reduced percentage compared to the less tart beer, I think that would get me where I want to be.  Surely the commercial brewers aren't blending though?

Wow, the wife better appreciate this beer if it ever turns out perfect!
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Help Me Tweak My Hefeweizen
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2010, 10:48:33 am »
Could it be that the tartness is actually the clove character of the yeast? I had many Weissbiers that were of the phenolic type (clove) which seemed to have a bitterness that comes from the clove.

Euge, you have access to some nice beers.

Kai