Author Topic: Pilsner brewing  (Read 3956 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2011, 11:27:00 AM »
From Wyeasts web site.  Looks like we are both right.

Wyeast 2782-PC Staro Prague Lager Yeast
Beer Styles: Bohemian Pilsner, Munich Helles, Vienna Lager, Oktoberfest/Marzen, Munich Dunkel, Schwarzbier, Traditional Bock, Maibock/Hellesbock, Dopplebock, Eisbock
Profile: This yeast will help create medium to full body lagers with moderate fruit and bready malt flavors. The balance is slightly toward malt sweetness and will benefit from additional hop bittering. A fantastic strain for producing classic Bohemian lagers.

Alc. Tolerance 11% ABV   
Flocculation     medium
Attenuation       70-74%             
Temp. Range   50-58°F (10-14°C)
 


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Offline malzig

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2011, 11:45:25 AM »
From Wyeasts web site.  Looks like we are both right.
I was giving you a bit of a hard time.  I'm sure this yeast could make a great Bohemian Pilsner, I just haven't had one that I knew was made with this yeast.  I know it makes a fantastic Dunkel/Schwarzbier, though!

Offline richardt

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2011, 11:55:12 AM »
Good to know because I like both types of beers!  Maybe I'll start with a Pilsner, then use the cake for the Dunkel or Schwartzbier.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2011, 11:58:17 AM »
I was in Prague for a few days in '99.  Loved the beer, light and dark.  My wife actually liked the Staropamen.  The only poor beer we had was at U-Flecku.  It had gone sour, and was not good at all.   A year later a guy from the club brought some U-Fleku back from a Europe tour, and that was an entirely different beer, not sour at all.
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline malzig

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2011, 12:06:46 PM »
My hotel in Prague had a Budvar pub on the first floor.  I drank a lot of Budvar Dark and Kozel Dark, and an occasional Urquell, but I never saw any Staropromen on tap, so I only had a warmish bottle I bought at the local convenience store.
Good to know because I like both types of beers!  Maybe I'll start with a Pilsner, then use the cake for the Dunkel or Schwartzbier.
Now that sounds like a plan!

Online Kaiser

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 09:41:21 PM »
Despite having done the FFT I wonder if your beers are actually done fermenting. 11 days primary and 2 days at 60 can work but not in most of the cases I have seen in my brewing. Maybe you should try the extended primary where you keep the beer in the primary for 3 weeks at 50 F before kegging it.

With the water I was not aiming for a Bohemian Pilsner water but mor for a German Pilsner water.

You would modify all the water in this way. But on a second thought you can also mash with your water, add all the Gypsum to the mash and sparge with distilled or reverse osmosis water if this is easier for you. I don't think that this would make much of a difference. 

Kai

 

Offline redzim

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2011, 09:17:09 AM »
OK so for German Pils, mix my water 50/50 with distilled, at 0.5g gypsum per gallon, and mash and sparge with that water (or rather add that amount of gypsum to the mash.....)   Alternatively mash with my water with added gypsum, and sparge with distilled would be the same?? 

How would the additions change for a Bohemian Pils?

And I will certainly try a 3wk primary at 50F, I'm willing to wait for an improved product.....

-Red

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2011, 02:57:44 PM »
Pisner beers aren't really typical of Prague, and Staropromen gets a lot of ribbing for their yellow beers over there.  Most pubs carry Urquell or Budvar Pilsner, with Staropromen relegated mostly to supermarkets.  Not that I'd blame their yeast for that, and it probably could make a fine Pilsner.

Prague, however, is more of a Dunkle town, historically, since it has hard water more like Munich and the OPs than Pilzn.  This is probably the yeast used by U Fleku to make their famous Dunkel.  I'd use 2782 yeast to make a Dunkel or Schwarzbier,

I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong.
Pilsner style beers are brewed all over the Czech republic and are as native as Hamburgers for good old US of A.
Praha/Prague included.

If you could not find Staropramen on your visit there, may be you should have walked off tourist track and find out where and what native are drinking.
U Fleku is a tourist trap and for 60 crowns a pop you will not find too many natives there.

By the way water for Bo - Pils should be from soft to moderate.
You adjust your recipe based on your water.
If you have soft water you can add more hops.
If you have moderate water you use less hops.
You should have NO lingering bitterns regardless of water hardness.
Also Bo - Pils should not be too bitter.
Pilsner Urquell is 34 IBUs.

Hope this help.
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline malzig

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2011, 05:35:34 PM »
Pisner beers aren't really typical of Prague, and Staropromen gets a lot of ribbing for their yellow beers over there.  Most pubs carry Urquell or Budvar Pilsner, with Staropromen relegated mostly to supermarkets.  Not that I'd blame their yeast for that, and it probably could make a fine Pilsner.

Prague, however, is more of a Dunkle town, historically, since it has hard water more like Munich and the OPs than Pilzn.  This is probably the yeast used by U Fleku to make their famous Dunkel.  I'd use 2782 yeast to make a Dunkel or Schwarzbier,
I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong.
Pilsner style beers are brewed all over the Czech republic and are as native as Hamburgers for good old US of A.
Praha/Prague included.

If you could not find Staropramen on your visit there, may be you should have walked off tourist track and find out where and what native are drinking.
U Fleku is a tourist trap and for 60 crowns a pop you will not find too many natives there.
Wrong about what?
Historically, Dunkel was the dominant style in Prague, just as it was in Munich.  There's a lot more to Dunkels than U Fleku, so I hope that's not the only one you tried.  I never said that Pilsners aren't now brewed in Prague, but like many great brewing cities in the world, Prague makes passable Pilsners because there always seems to be a demand for yellow beer.  

Staropromen is fine and all, but I've tried quite a few Pilsners over my last last 35 years of traveling around and near Germany, well off the "tourist track" and I wouldn't place Staropromen near the top.  Czech natives that I talked to considered it the Miller of Czech and a bit of a joke.

Offline redzim

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2011, 02:26:39 PM »


You would modify all the water in this way.

 

I'm a little confused... I would add gypsum at 0.4g / gal to the mash tun when mashing in, that much I understand.  but then when batch sparging, would I again add 0.4g gypsum for every gallon of sparge water I use, and add that gypsum to my mash tun as well?  in other places I've seen people say they add those salts directly to the boil.... please advise.

-red

Online Kaiser

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Re: Pilsner brewing
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2011, 09:09:33 PM »
I don't think it matters much if all the water is treated the same way or if you add the sparge water salts to the boil or even in the mash tun. If the goal is to emulate a particular local brewing water, it seems logical that you would want to treat all the water the same way since that local brewing water would be used for mash and sparge. Since we are adding salts to the water we do have a bit more freedom than that brewer who is using the water we are trying to emulate. Hence the discussion when and where to add the salts. I tend to treat all the water the same way,  thinking it would be more compliant with the Reinheitsgebot (German purity law), but that doesn't matter much and the subject of water treatment and RHG may also be a bit more complex than that.

Kai