Author Topic: First AG batch......  (Read 4143 times)

Offline oscarvan

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First AG batch......
« on: January 13, 2011, 02:45:07 PM »
It's in the fermenter and happily bubbling away! If you missed the other self adoring thread, check out my 15MB of fame here:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/

Anywho. It was interesting. The HLT is a dream, so is the kettle..... Got some data on how much heat/liquid loss in the MLT and BK. I brewed the house APA, converted to AG. I'll be able to compare it to my extract batch......if I don't drink it first....

The only part I wasn't too happy with was the rate at which the MLT drained.....slow, VERY slow. What is "normal"? I thought the grind was a little fine (jsp Maltmill, fixed model) I will take and post a picture of the ground malt when I get a chance. In the end I think I cheated and did a little stirring in the mash around the screen to get it draining.

The screen is one of these: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/1_2_KETTLESCREEN_FOR_POLARWAR_P2372.cfm

OG came in slightly above target, 1056 vs 1048-1052 so I am confident I got the sugar out of there. And, as I said, it's happily bubbling away......
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 02:47:20 PM by oscarvan »
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline Mark G

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »
What efficiency did you end up getting? And what's your grain bill? Any wheat or anything else sticky in there?
Mark Gres

Offline oscarvan

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 09:08:04 PM »
Well, lets see...... two row pale malt, ten pounds say 28 points = 280 There was also 1/2 pound of Crystal and a half pound of  Carapils so call that another 25 points for a total of 305...... I ended up with 5.25 gallons at 1056 so call it 294 points...... that puts me at 294/305*75=72.3%...so 72.5/75=96%...right?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:10:36 PM by oscarvan »
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline euge

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 12:41:25 AM »
Well, lets see...... two row pale malt, ten pounds say 28 points = 280 There was also 1/2 pound of Crystal and a half pound of  Carapils so call that another 25 points for a total of 305...... I ended up with 5.25 gallons at 1056 so call it 294 points...... that puts me at 294/305*75=72.3%...so 72.5/75=96%...right?

That sounds a bit high as a first-batch eff. I plugged it into the TB calculator and got 73% eff. Not bad...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline dzlater

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 05:01:45 AM »
Well, lets see...... two row pale malt, ten pounds say 28 points = 280 There was also 1/2 pound of Crystal and a half pound of  Carapils so call that another 25 points for a total of 305...... I ended up with 5.25 gallons at 1056 so call it 294 points...... that puts me at 294/305*75=72.3%...so 72.5/75=96%...right?
I am not sure why  you are multiplying by 75 and then dividing by 75, it just cancels itself out.
The chart I use puts 2row @ 36 ppg and the carapils and crystal @ 35
so that's 360 + 35 for 395
5.25x56=294
294/395=.74


Dan S. from NJ

Offline oscarvan

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 07:15:18 AM »
OK, understood. The 96% was my percentage of 75%, IOW how close did I get to the malter's assumed brewhouse efficiency. We're saying the same thing. Either way, I agree. Not bad for a first batch. I'm happy.

That still leaves my original question.......how long should the mash tun take to drain?
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Offline tygo

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 07:44:47 AM »
That still leaves my original question.......how long should the mash tun take to drain?

My runoff's usually take about 15 minutes or so but that's with me leaving the cooler tilted and wort trickling out at the end.  My total runoff time with initial runoff and sparging usually runs about 40 min.
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 08:19:49 AM »
Ah..... that's a lot longer than I thought. OK, I must be on the right track. Onward forward.
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline richardt

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 08:26:27 AM »
I typically do 10 gallon batches of high gravity beers in a 10 gallon round Rubbermaid/Igloo/Gott cooler fitted with a 12 inch bazooka screen and spigot.  We're talking over 25 lbs of grains, usually.
Lautering takes 20 minutes.
1st Batch sparge 15-20 minutes.
2nd batch sparge 10-15 minutes.
Total time 45 minutes to an hour.

My wet mash often goes up to the 8 gallon mark on the inside of the cooler, so we're talking a good 1.5 feet thick grain bed.
I've often wondered if my lautering/sparging would go faster if I went with a rectangular cooler, or a 12-inch round SS false bottom (with perforations or slotted manifold).  What do y'all think?

I usually start the 20 gallon SS boil kettle once the first runnings (from lautering) is completed.  I use a 5.5 gallon SS pot as my collection and transfer vessel during sparging.  That way, once the 2nd sparge is nearly done, the wort is already boiling. Lautering and sparging isn't taking too much time (unless I excessively crush my grains or do wheat beers w/o rice hulls--both have happened).

Offline bluesman

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 08:42:16 AM »
That still leaves my original question.......how long should the mash tun take to drain?

It depends on several factors. What kind of strainer are you using? (manifold,hose braid, etc...) I know you are using a rectangular cooler which will drain quicker than a round cooler. Density of the grain bed is another factor which is determined by the crush. Sticky type grains like wheat and rye tend to slow down the runoff. With your grist bill and your cooler using a hose braid for 5 gallons I would estimate roughly 10 min or less to drain.

Some of the issues that can hinder the runoff are the grist bill composition, depth of grain bed, crush, strainer design and lack of vertical drop to the BK.

I know you have a JSP Maltmill with a fixed factory setting which should be .039". Have you checked that mill gap setting?
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 09:08:29 AM »
I know you have a JSP Maltmill with a fixed factory setting which should be .039". Have you checked that mill gap setting?

No, EXCELLENT point. My inexperienced eye thought the milling was a little fine. I will measure the gap and also take a picture of some milled grains.
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
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I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline euge

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 11:54:55 AM »
I"m assuming you're batch-sparging.

Don't worry so much about the time. With my system I've had to throttle it back halfway to keep from compacting the grain-bed. That's a stuck-sparge BTW.

With batch-sparging my first run is always longer for some reason, maybe 10-15 minutes. ???  Even though the concept is: drain the tun as fast as possible you gotta respect how the wort makes its way to the braid. My grain-bed usually will remain quite loose until the level of wort drops below it's surface and I don't get any sort of channeling- which still can occur in batch-sparging. So you'll have to reach a compromise between speed, time and ease of use. Going so fast one has to fix a stuck sparge doesn't really save any time at all.

Yes try backing off on your grind. It will help your lauter. And mashing a few minutes extra doesn't hurt either.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline denny

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 12:00:39 PM »
I know you have a JSP Maltmill with a fixed factory setting which should be .039". Have you checked that mill gap setting?

No, EXCELLENT point. My inexperienced eye thought the milling was a little fine. I will measure the gap and also take a picture of some milled grains.

I use an adjustable JSP.  I have the gap closed almost as far as it will go.  From the time I start my mash runoff til the time I finish my sparge runoff takes 15 min. for about 8 gal. of wort.  That includes vorlauf for the mash, adding the sparge water, and vorlauf for the sparge.
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Offline richardt

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 12:20:57 PM »
Wow, Denny!  Then I probably should be thinking about a big blue rectangular cooler for my mash tun. 
My 10 gallon round orange igloo cooler is probably compacting too much and slowing things down. 
The grain bed is well over 12-18 inches in height usually.
Euge, I also notice that the sparge times get shorter as the SG of the runnings decrease with each batch sparge (less viscosity). 

Offline euge

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Re: First AG batch......
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2011, 12:36:56 PM »
I found this Brew Strong show fairly informative. http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_masheff101909.mp3

Listened to it several times- now I feel better about backing off my gap. Especially when I noticed it didn't impact my efficiency at all.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman