Author Topic: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops  (Read 1458 times)

Offline wamille

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Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« on: January 15, 2011, 04:44:39 PM »
Has anyone used Pacific Gem hops yet?  I just got them a month or so ago and figured they'd go good in a big stout.   I'm thinking about putting those hops in at the 60-minute point and then Simcoe at the 30-minute point.  I've heard Pacific Gem has a blackberry flavor.  The Simcoe has a woody, earthy character (I understand) and thought the two would go well together. 
75
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

By the way... before anyone asks, the recipe for five gallons is:

20.25 lbs 2 row
2 lbs Smoked Cherrywood
1 lb Belgian Debittered
1 lb Roasted Barley
.75 lb Carafa III
.5 lb Black Patent
1 lb Carapils
2 lbs Flaked Barley
1 lb Flaked Oats
.5 lb Flaked Rye

Yeast   Wyeast 1450  Denny's Favorite

Offline jlap

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 08:31:53 AM »
I can't comment on Pacific Gem hops but you're grist looks overly complicated.  Have you brewed this beer before?  If not, I'd suggest going with a simpler recipe.  Maybe chose 1 or 2 roasted grains for about 8-10% and 1 flaked grain.  You probably want to use some portion of crystal malt to lend some sweetness, somewhere around or slightly less than the % of roasted grain.

Offline EHall

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 10:01:57 AM »
I"ve used them several times. They have mostly a blackberry aroma, but you can get flavor out of them too. They have a woodsy flavor to them too. I think they would go good in a stout but not sure about simcoe in there with it... its got alot of pine in it, I think that could cancel out the pacific gem or clash.
Phoenix, AZ

jaybeerman

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2011, 12:56:50 PM »
any additions between 20 minutes and 0 minutes?

Offline wamille

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2011, 06:47:05 PM »
jlap... just winging it on this recipe.  I like the "seat-of-my-pants" approach to brewing.  I'm more of an "artist" than engineer.  I know I should try to work on the engineering part, but my brother got that side of the brain.  But I will take some time to study what you've mentioned and think about that course of action.

Ehall... I'd like the woody flavored hops for this one as the flavor profile sounds like it would work well together.  I thought Simcoe had some earthy and woody flavors.  Do you have any suggestion for another hop of that character?

jaybeerman... wasn't going to add any hops after the 30 minute point.  I was looking for a stout that had bitterness and a slight hop flavor.  Why do you suggest adding hops at 20 minutes and flameout?

Thanks all for the input.

jaybeerman

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2011, 10:15:03 PM »
Hey, wamille, I know what you mean when you say you're using the artists approach.  On the other hand the engineering part is like an artist learning technique before he can truly achieve all that he set out to accomplish.  Yes I think you should add hops after the thirty minute mark, IF you want some hop character.  You will have so much malt character that your current plan will result in no noticeable hop character other than bitterness.  The sixty minute addition will result in zero distinguishable hop flavor, and in this beer the thirty minute addition won't amount to much either (depending on the size of the addition).  It sounded like you wanted the berry character of the pacific gem, if that's the case use the simcoe for your 60 min addition and use the pacific gem between 20-10 minutes.  Or for a subtle flavor from the simcoe add some at 60, some at 20 minutes and then the pacific at 15 minutes.  What size of hop additions are we talking about? 

Your choice, your beer.  This is your beer and you should do whatever you want.  That said; the debittered black and carafa will come through as less bitter versions of the black malt.  So you have 2.25 lbs of black malt (with 1.75 lbs being less bitter).  Might be a bit much, your choice.  Also the carapils will be a flavorless addition of body something this beer isn't lacking.  Want to use flaked barley, oats and rye?  Ok but that's a lot of unfermentables thus a lot of body; maybe cut the additions down a little.  Even using a pound total would give a nice graininess (you won’t be able to pick out their flavor in this beer) and give a boost to the body.  In case you haven’t already read, “Designing Great Beers,” it’s an excellent book and is very helpful with rough guidelines for the creation of a recipe.  Cheers, j 

Offline wamille

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 11:30:42 PM »
j...  thanks for the input.  I am going to follow your suggestion on the hops.  I'll use (perhaps) Magnum for bittering and put the Pacific Gem in with 15 minutes remaining and some at flameout to keep some flavor and aroma.  I was planning on using 1.5 oz for bittering and the same for flavoring... maybe an ounce for aroma?

Regarding the malts... I really want this beer to be big and full.  But I'd rather not waste any grain if I don't need to.  I'll look at ditching the carapils - was looking for more body, but if the flaked stuff does that, I'll take it out.  Also, regarding the flaked adjuncts, you're saying a total of one pound is good enough to give it some mouthfeel and graininess?  Are you saying that I have enough dark malts?  I want the beer to have a very dark, mostly roasty flavor.  If my grain bill is 30 pounds total, how much dark grain would you suggest?  Like I say, I want the beer to be big... rich... and full-bodied.

I don't have that book... I'll have to see if there are any copies available on Amazon.

Offline dean

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 10:06:38 AM »
I've used Pacific Gem, I think they're Awesome... better than most high alpha hops, but thats jmo.  I can't remember if I used them in a stout our not anymore its been so long since I've used them but they're great in any of the ales, again jmo.

I wish they were available as leaf hops rather than pellet is my only complaint about them.


Offline EHall

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 10:14:57 AM »
I agree, you could use the simcoe for bittering but if you want that blackberry/woody flavor, you're going to have to use them around 10m. othewise, pacific gem has little to no flavor when you use them at 60m. Me personally, I'd worry about to much of the piney flavor of the simcoe coming thru to strong and mixing with all the dark grains, just doesn't sound good to me. but, again, its your beer, do what you want with it, nothing wrong with experimenting! I usually use willamette for my stouts, its got a woodsy flavor to it but would clean up alot using it at 60m and could blend well with the pacific gem too.
Phoenix, AZ

Offline dean

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 10:21:12 AM »
Who sells Pacific Gem now?  I just checked Freshops and they don't even offer pellets anymore  ???

I just found this (they offer NZ Pacific Gem LEAF hops) and thought I'd edit my post to add this site.  Anybody tried this company, if so what was your experience?

http://hopstoyou.com/index.html
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 10:31:39 AM by dean »

jaybeerman

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 01:20:44 PM »
1. I was planning on using 1.5 oz for bittering and the same for flavoring... maybe an ounce for aroma?
2. flaked adjuncts, you're saying a total of one pound is good enough to give it some mouthfeel and graininess? 
3. Are you saying that I have enough dark malts?  I want the beer to have a very dark, mostly roasty flavor.  If my grain bill is 30 pounds total, how much dark grain would you suggest?  Like I say, I want the beer to be big... rich... and full-bodied.

1. sure, that'll give some flavor and aroma.  adjust levels in the next version of this beer to perfectly match your desires.
2. i'm saying 30 lbs of 2row in a 5 gal batch would leave plenty of mouthfeel.  I'd worry more about getting this thing to ferment out, do a nice yeast starter.  i guess i could see 0 flaked grain all the way up to 1/2 lb of each (1.5 lbs) working in this beer.  your choice, get some other opinions
3. taste is subjective.
4. here check this out http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/RISNHC06 not my style but seems close to what you were thinking.  i'm not saying you should model your beer after this one, just an example and you can see what the judges had to say.

cheers, j

Offline dean

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2011, 02:11:51 PM »
If you're going for mouthfeel... the yeast you listed (Denny's Fav50) will do A Lot for you there... 30 pounds of malt for 6 gallon batch?  Thats gonna be a monster... just doing a very quick and dirty calc it puts your OG around 1.180... give or take.  I agree with jaybeerman, I think your yeast will stall out unless you make a "very huge starter" best of luck to you.   :o

Offline wamille

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 03:59:02 AM »
ok... i've taken a lot of your comments and have formulated the following:

10 lbs rahr 2 row
5 lbs golden promise
5 lbs marris otter
2 lbs smoked cherrywood
1 lb roasted barley
.75 lb carafa III
.5 lb black patent
.5 lb aromatic
1 lb flaked barley
.5 lb flaked oats
.5 lb flaked rye
.25 lb special b

2 oz magnum hops 60-min
1 oz pacfic gem 10-min
2 oz pacific gem flameout

I have an IPA fermenting as I write that should be ready to keg in a three weeks.  I was thinking about putting my stout on top of the wlp 001 yeast cake in the bottom of my blichmann conical and then pouring some denny's favorite in with it.  Any thoughts on this current idea?

Offline EHall

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 07:47:29 AM »
being that this is such a big brew, I'd switch the last 2 additions... 2oz @ 10m and 1oz @ flameout. its going to be a while before you drink it, you may actually want to taste the pacific gem at some point.
Phoenix, AZ

Offline skyler

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Re: Imperial Stout with Pacific Gem Hops
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 10:21:40 AM »
Adding a second yeast won't do anything for you. Reusing IPA yeast might be a bad idea, too, since yeast can get a little weak sauce after fermenting a big beer. Just make a monster starter.