[pinnah]

Those of you that have experimented with hopstand - adding flame out hops and NOT chilling for a while....
any words of wisdom or experiences on how to roughly calculate IBU contributions?

I suppose time and temp are big variables, but what does it taste like to YOU?

Thanks.

[dannyjed]

I doubt it will contribute very much at all to bitterness, just aroma.

[tygo]

Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?

[Malticulous]

I'm sure it's a IBU or two, but not within the threshold of perception.

[ethanjhall]

Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?

[euge]

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?

I think it helps clarity some and most people are in a hurry to get the wort into the fermenter and be done with it all the while worrying about bacteria getting into their wort before the yeast does...  As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?

http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/HopSoup.htm

[pinnah]

why not just do a first wort hop?

  I had a little of that as well.  Here is my schedule:


FWH 1.0 oz Amarillo @ 9.4%
10     1.0 oz Amarillo
10     1.0 oz Simcoe @ 12.7%
5       1.0 oz Amarillo
5       1.0 oz Simcoe
0       3.0 oz Citra @ 12%

O.G. 1.070

I let it sit for 30 minutes before chilling @ around 190-180 degrees. 
Because of the continued heat, I was thinking that there would be increased and ongoing utilization...

Just wondering if anyone has been able to nail down BU's for this type of technique.

[blatz]

As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?

b/c the whole boiling process has forced off almost all of the volatiles/aromatic compounds from the FWH.  have you ever done an all FWH beer - almost no aroma whatsoever.

[Hokerer]

As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?

b/c the whole boiling process has forced off almost all of the volatiles/aromatic compounds from the FWH.  have you ever done an all FWH beer - almost no aroma whatsoever.

Yep, FWH is all about flavor not aroma (at least in my experience).  If I want to maximize hop aroma, that's where I dry hop.

[Hokerer]

Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?

DMS is Dimethyl Sulfide and it's presence in your brew will give it a "cooked corn" flavor.  When you're boiling, the DMS pre-cursors are being "volatilized" (ie. they're being gotten rid of in the steam).  Once you stop boiling, the pre-cursors can start forming into DMS.  That conversion only happens above 140F so the sooner you get your wort below that temp, the less chance you have of having DMS issues.

[blatz]

DMS is Dimethyl Sulfide and it's presence in your brew will give it a "cooked corn" flavor.  When you're boiling, the DMS pre-cursors are being "volatilized" (ie. they're being gotten rid of in the steam).  Once you stop boiling, the pre-cursors can start forming into DMS.  That conversion only happens above 140F so the sooner you get your wort below that temp, the less chance you have of having DMS issues.

we're starting to get this thread off course, but...

I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present. 

[narvin]

Those of you that have experimented with hopstand - adding flame out hops and NOT chilling for a while....
any words of wisdom or experiences on how to roughly calculate IBU contributions?

I suppose time and temp are big variables, but what does it taste like to YOU?

Thanks.

If you listen to the Firestone Walker episode of Can You Brew It, I think the brewer said something about their flameout hops contributing 20 or 25 IBUs in an 60 minute whirlpool, or something like that.  You'd have to go back and listen to get the specifics.

[tygo]

we're starting to get this thread off course, but...

I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present. 

Yeah, I believe that's true.  And I don't know how much will continue to form after a 90 minute boil while the wort is above 140.  But I still try to get it chilled down below that as quickly is possible for that reason.

[blatz]

Yeah, I believe that's true.  And I don't know how much will continue to form after a 90 minute boil while the wort is above 140.  But I still try to get it chilled down below that as quickly is possible for that reason.

sorry - did not mean to infer that you still shouldn't chill down as quickly as possible, just clarifying that there is less risk.

[Hokerer]

I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present.  

Agreed.  Then again "most" is not all and "critical" is subjective so, if it's relatively easy to do, why not chill as quickly as possible.  There're also other reasons to chill quickly (ie. better cold break and resultant better beer clarity, etc.).  

Basically, though, I was just responding to the poster who was asking for more explanation of tygo's comment about "volatilization".