Author Topic: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions  (Read 9056 times)

Offline pinnah

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Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« on: January 19, 2011, 08:20:33 PM »
Those of you that have experimented with hopstand - adding flame out hops and NOT chilling for a while....
any words of wisdom or experiences on how to roughly calculate IBU contributions?

I suppose time and temp are big variables, but what does it taste like to YOU?

Thanks.


Offline dannyjed

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 08:32:38 PM »
I doubt it will contribute very much at all to bitterness, just aroma.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 08:35:14 PM »
Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 08:45:28 PM »
I'm sure it's a IBU or two, but not within the threshold of perception.

Offline ethanjhall

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 09:16:21 PM »
Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?
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Offline euge

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 10:18:43 PM »

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?

I think it helps clarity some and most people are in a hurry to get the wort into the fermenter and be done with it all the while worrying about bacteria getting into their wort before the yeast does...  :D As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?

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Offline pinnah

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2011, 06:53:56 AM »
why not just do a first wort hop?



 :) I had a little of that as well.  Here is my schedule:


FWH 1.0 oz Amarillo @ 9.4%
10     1.0 oz Amarillo
10     1.0 oz Simcoe @ 12.7%
5       1.0 oz Amarillo
5       1.0 oz Simcoe
0       3.0 oz Citra @ 12%

O.G. 1.070

I let it sit for 30 minutes before chilling @ around 190-180 degrees. 
Because of the continued heat, I was thinking that there would be increased and ongoing utilization...

Just wondering if anyone has been able to nail down BU's for this type of technique.

Offline blatz

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 07:21:44 AM »
:D As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?


b/c the whole boiling process has forced off almost all of the volatiles/aromatic compounds from the FWH.  have you ever done an all FWH beer - almost no aroma whatsoever.

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Offline hokerer

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 07:23:55 AM »
:D As far as adding hops at flameout and letting it sit why not just do a first wort hop?

b/c the whole boiling process has forced off almost all of the volatiles/aromatic compounds from the FWH.  have you ever done an all FWH beer - almost no aroma whatsoever.

Yep, FWH is all about flavor not aroma (at least in my experience).  If I want to maximize hop aroma, that's where I dry hop.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 07:27:34 AM »
Yeah, I don't think you'd have to worry much about calculating IBU's since it won't contribute much.  Also, by letting it sit there hot aren't you developing DMS pre-cursors which aren't getting volatilized?

I've wondered why it's important to cool quickly after flameout... Can you explain that last part for a new brewer?

DMS is Dimethyl Sulfide and it's presence in your brew will give it a "cooked corn" flavor.  When you're boiling, the DMS pre-cursors are being "volatilized" (ie. they're being gotten rid of in the steam).  Once you stop boiling, the pre-cursors can start forming into DMS.  That conversion only happens above 140F so the sooner you get your wort below that temp, the less chance you have of having DMS issues.
Joe

Offline blatz

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 07:38:33 AM »
DMS is Dimethyl Sulfide and it's presence in your brew will give it a "cooked corn" flavor.  When you're boiling, the DMS pre-cursors are being "volatilized" (ie. they're being gotten rid of in the steam).  Once you stop boiling, the pre-cursors can start forming into DMS.  That conversion only happens above 140F so the sooner you get your wort below that temp, the less chance you have of having DMS issues.

we're starting to get this thread off course, but...

I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present.  ???
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Offline narvin

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 08:03:42 AM »
Those of you that have experimented with hopstand - adding flame out hops and NOT chilling for a while....
any words of wisdom or experiences on how to roughly calculate IBU contributions?

I suppose time and temp are big variables, but what does it taste like to YOU?

Thanks.


If you listen to the Firestone Walker episode of Can You Brew It, I think the brewer said something about their flameout hops contributing 20 or 25 IBUs in an 60 minute whirlpool, or something like that.  You'd have to go back and listen to get the specifics.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 08:08:38 AM »
we're starting to get this thread off course, but...

I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present.  ???

Yeah, I believe that's true.  And I don't know how much will continue to form after a 90 minute boil while the wort is above 140.  But I still try to get it chilled down below that as quickly is possible for that reason.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 08:18:20 AM »
Yeah, I believe that's true.  And I don't know how much will continue to form after a 90 minute boil while the wort is above 140.  But I still try to get it chilled down below that as quickly is possible for that reason.

sorry - did not mean to infer that you still shouldn't chill down as quickly as possible, just clarifying that there is less risk.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Hopstand Flame out hops - IBU contributions
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 08:20:31 AM »
I thought you could boil off *most* of the DMS precursors with an extended boil, such that when you stop boiling its not as critical of an issue.  Hence why we boil pils malt worts for 90 min since they have more DMS precursors present.  ???

Agreed.  Then again "most" is not all and "critical" is subjective so, if it's relatively easy to do, why not chill as quickly as possible.  There're also other reasons to chill quickly (ie. better cold break and resultant better beer clarity, etc.).  

Basically, though, I was just responding to the poster who was asking for more explanation of tygo's comment about "volatilization".
Joe