Author Topic: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.  (Read 5519 times)

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 11:59:53 AM »
I've only used tannin once, and I added 1tsp/5 gal. It was also 'wine tannin' and I was following the bottle directions. I remember the powder being a bit hydrophobic, so you might want to mix it with warm water or something before adding it.

Honestly though, if you like the way it tastes I'd hesitate to modify it.
Jimmy K

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 04:00:49 PM »
There are probably no directions because you should add it to taste.  You can start with Jimmy's recommendation of 1 tsp/ 5 gal, maybe go with less initially and taste it and decide if it needs more.

I agree though, if you already like the way it tastes I'm not sure I would add it.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2012, 05:34:51 PM »
I ran a sample past my friend from England and he thought something was missing and it was a bit tart.  So, I'm going to add the tannin and back sweeten it.  How do I go about stopping the yeast from eating up the sugar I add?  He thought it wasn't "apple-y" enough so i'm gonna start with 2 gals of unfermented cider or juice and then check sweetness.
Thanks
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 05:42:15 PM by gmac »

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2012, 07:33:22 PM »
I think campden tablets will kill the yeast for you.  Then you can back sweeten.

But I've not done this, so wait for more authoritative advice.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2012, 08:55:17 PM »
I think campden tablets will kill the yeast for you.  Then you can back sweeten.

But I've not done this, so wait for more authoritative advice.

Nope. Campden tablets (sulfites) will stop the yeast temporarily, but not permenently.  Cultured yeasts are more resistant to sulfites than wild yeasts and bacteria. Sorbate will prevent renewed fermentation, but won't stop active yeast very well - so you must use both - sulfites to stop the yeast and sorbate to keep it stopped.

By the way, another reason to use both is that lactic acid bacteria, which are likely present in your cider in small amounts, will metabolize sorbate to produce geranium flavors/aromas unless sulfite is added.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2012, 11:41:29 PM »
I would also consider using apple juice concentrate so you don't dilute the ABV too much.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 08:59:40 AM »
By the way, I'd back sweeten first before adding tannin. Cider often finishes with a gravity of 0.998 - absolutely bone dry. Sweetening it to just 1.002-1.005 will bring out apple flavors/aromas in a surprising way and that gravity is still considered 'dry'. Most people will taste it and think there is no sugar left, though there is.

Edit: I'd start with 1 cup of sugar (or equivalent) per 5 gallons.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 09:01:41 AM by mtnrockhopper »
Jimmy K

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Offline gmac

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 09:57:01 AM »
Should I rack it off the yeast cake first and then sulfite/sorbate?  Seems the most logical but I'm checking. 
How much of each for just shy of 5 gals? (16L).  I have campden tablets, I'll have to find sorbate.  No decent homebrew shop around here but there's a wine shop that will surely have what I need.

One other question.  I am going to carbonate this in a keg and then bottle.  Do I need champagne bottles for this since it won't be building pressure in the bottle or would regular wine bottles be sufficient?  Just thinking cost.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 10:49:07 AM »
I've bottled my kegged ciders into regular old beer bottles.  Since you're not building carbonation, I don't think it matters.

Champagne bottles would not be necessary.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 11:50:38 AM »
I use regular beer bottles too.

I have powdered sulfite so I'm not sure, but I think campden tablets is 1 tab/gallon crushed. Sorbate is added at 1/2 tsp/gallon. Potassium sorbate is also sold labeled as 'wine stabilizer'.

And yes, rack off the yeast first. I rack into the keg, add sulfite, sorbate, and sugar, then stir and carbonate.
Jimmy K

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Offline gmac

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 12:56:40 PM »
Thanks.  I've seen wine stabilizer before so now I know what I'm looking for.

Problem with bottles here in Canada is that there aren't that many craft breweries yet that use pry-off bottles.  There's a few but not near as many in the US.  When I travel South, I try to bring back a case of DFH or Bells or something like that as much for the bottles as for the beer.  Shorts beer was good but their labels are stuck on with some sort of mutant toad mucus that I can't get off.  I use these bottles mostly for competitions where unlabelled bottles are necessary.  The two beers I buy up here that have pry-offs both have painted labels.  Pain in the rump for re-using.

Online morticaixavier

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2012, 01:27:15 PM »
Should I rack it off the yeast cake first and then sulfite/sorbate?  Seems the most logical but I'm checking. 
How much of each for just shy of 5 gals? (16L).  I have campden tablets, I'll have to find sorbate.  No decent homebrew shop around here but there's a wine shop that will surely have what I need.

One other question.  I am going to carbonate this in a keg and then bottle.  Do I need champagne bottles for this since it won't be building pressure in the bottle or would regular wine bottles be sufficient?  Just thinking cost.

wine bottles are not intended to hold presure at all. They might be fine but it's a gamble. also there is no way to affix a crown cap to most wine bottles as they are expecting corks which you could do but you would have to also use the wire cages like for champagne
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 04:07:25 PM »
I've read that cranberry juice will take the ink off bottles that are screened.

I have no experience with this, but that's what I've seen elsewhere.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline gmac

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 07:48:15 PM »
Well, we shall see what happens.  I ended up kegging the cider and doing campden tablets and potassium sorbate.  I added 1 can of concentrated apple juice and 1/2 cup of sugar dissolved in the juice (brought all to a boil before adding just to be sure) and tasted.  Nicer.  Added 1 tsp of tannin as well and put it on gas. 
Wish I drank more cider and had some sort of idea what I was doing.  But, it's more fun this way :)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Gonna do my first cider Saturday.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 08:36:23 PM »
Back sweeten now that you have stabilized.  Do it in steeps.  Apple juice is a good start for this.  Then brown sugar.  A target I have used is 1.006 to 1.008.

You can also adjust the pH to between 3.4 to 3.6.  I used phosphoric acid to drop a few tenths to get in this range.

One thing you can do in the keg is to add a cinnamon stick for 12 to 24 hours.  That helps to give a more "apple" taste.  If you really get the cinnamon, it was in too long.  I tie the stick with dental floss so it can be pulled out.

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