Author Topic: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil  (Read 1491 times)

Offline skyler

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Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« on: February 03, 2011, 03:30:01 PM »
I recently started reusing dry hops as FWH in the next batch. The results of my singular trial were promising and I was planning on doing it again, but I have a question - what if, mixed in with the dry hops and small amount of secondary yeast/trub, there is a little bit of gelatin? This is how it would happen:

Finished beer goes into secondary for 2 weeks to dry hop
After 10-14 days, the fermenter is kept at 30F for 2 days and gelatin is added
After 2 more days the beer is kegged
Dump the contents of the secondary into the kettle as first runnings are drawn
Brew beer as usual

My assumption has been that, after 90 minutes of boiling, the gelatin would have zero effect. But I have wondered if there could be some negative impact of having denatured gelatin in the wort. And while I know I could just fine in the keg, I really don't want to because I want clear beer to go into the keg so I can potentially take this keg to a club event and have clear beer pour out of it.

Offline MDixon

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 05:21:32 AM »
I first thought you meant gelatin in the boil, now it appears you want to throw it in with the dry hops. I'd wait until dry hopping was over if at all. I think the gelatin would most likely just adhere to any floating hops and not drop through the wort/beer to clear.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 06:07:51 AM »
Hard to say.  On the one hand, gelatin dissolves nicely in very hot water (think jello).  On the other hand, I found a reference that says gelatin has an isoelectric point of pH 4.7 so the pH of the wort-turned-beer ought to help it drop out since it wouldn't be too charged.

You really think theres that much residual oils in the dry hops?  Given the cost these days, it hardly seems worth the trouble of harvesting for reuse.  Of course I don't dry hop just because I think its wasteful.
Lennie
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 12:40:58 AM »
Of course I don't dry hop just because I think its wasteful.

Wasteful?  ??? I can't get my head around that. If you were a pro brewer maybe I could get on board, but as a homebrewer you have a lease on brewing to do whatever you want! And dry hopping can create spectacular results!!
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Offline maxieboy

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 11:29:26 AM »
Of course I don't dry hop just because I think its wasteful.

Wasteful?  ??? I can't get my head around that. If you were a pro brewer maybe I could get on board, but as a homebrewer you have a lease on brewing to do whatever you want! And dry hopping can create spectacular results!!

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Offline skyler

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 04:16:27 AM »
I love dry hopping, but I hate hop bits in my beer and I hate hazy beer. The batch I am planning on doing this with will get trekked around a bit, which is why I want to fine before I keg it - and still be able to dry hop. I assume the gelatin/polyclar will still work, but I am a little concerned with boiling polyclar (or even gelatin) with my beer (and I want to try reusing dry hops some more so I can get a clearer idea of what it does (and doesn't do). Seems no one has an answer as to what boiling gelatin will do, so I will just assume it will be ok.

Offline onthekeg

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 02:22:00 PM »


Most of the goodness from the hops is in the lupulin which I would think is in the beer you dry hopped. I can't imagine there would be enough left to add anything to the new beer.

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 06:26:07 PM »
Lennie, the Knox gelatin we are using is type A gealtin and it has a pH between 7 and 9. I once looked into this to write this:  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/How_pH_affects_brewing#Clarifies_in_kettle_and_fermenter

as for Skyler's question, I don't know what would happen to the beer. Just give it a try. If you don't want to risk the batch I would not reuse hops to begin with since there is still the unknown of how much bitterness you'll get out of them.

Kai

Offline skyler

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2011, 12:35:51 AM »
Lennie, the Knox gelatin we are using is type A gealtin and it has a pH between 7 and 9. I once looked into this to write this:  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/How_pH_affects_brewing#Clarifies_in_kettle_and_fermenter

as for Skyler's question, I don't know what would happen to the beer. Just give it a try. If you don't want to risk the batch I would not reuse hops to begin with since there is still the unknown of how much bitterness you'll get out of them.

Kai


I feel strongly enough that it should work out that I will risk the next batch. In part, I philosophically like reusing the hops and I am working out that doing so provides a pretty clean bitterness very similar to FWH with fresh hops - at least the alpha acid degradation from previously being used for dry hopping seems no greater than the degradation from 3-6 months of age. I know I don't have to do it and it doesn't really save that much money, but I see no reason to stop. Usually I fine in the keg and dry hop in secondary, so I never have to deal with fining on top of my dry hops, but this time is different (since I will be moving the keg around). So, this time I want to make sure that one batch is crystal clear when it gets into the keg. I could just choose not to reuse the hops for this batch, but I am curious to see what the gelatin does end up doing (especially since no one seems to know).

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 12:38:27 AM »
Skyler, someone asked in the ingredients forum and this was my recollection during the hop crisis for calc purposes

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5777.msg69056#msg69056

I have no idea how much the gelatin will play in.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Effects of Gelatin in the Boil
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 02:02:25 PM »
Lennie, the Knox gelatin we are using is type A gealtin and it has a pH between 7 and 9. I once looked into this to write this:  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/How_pH_affects_brewing#Clarifies_in_kettle_and_fermenter

Kai

I see, I was assuming the mechanism for fining was one where the insoluble gel interacted with material as it dropped thorugh.  I see now that there is ionic interaction like other fining agents, and the gelatin is positively charged and mostly in solution.  Here's an interesting article I found when I searched type A gelatin.  Looks like there are advantages and disadvantages to using gelatin with a higher pI since it correlates with a lower gelling ability (Bloom factor).

http://www.gelatin.co.za/fining.htm

Lennie
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