Author Topic: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?  (Read 4148 times)

Offline dean

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2011, 03:51:05 PM »
Oh, I know what you mean, I'm not complaing about JZ or his calculation... just saying it is yet another opinion that many homebrewers will swear by whether its actually right or wrong doesn't matter.   It has been written therefore It Must Be So...   ;)   ;D   Look how many people balk on no-chill method etc.  I almost shudder when I read or hear people say "the beer gods"... its like religion... you believe or you don't and the reasons why aren't necessarily important so long as you believe and follow one or the other.   ;) :D

I would probably still use his calculator to a point if the site wasn't so slow in loading... and the loading speed is what concerns me, but then I'm no computer guru either so.   ::)


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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2011, 04:26:58 PM »
I would probably still use his calculator to a point if the site wasn't so slow in loading...

Well, it's Flash, so mystery solved on that one.
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Offline euge

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2011, 04:33:06 PM »
I hear ya Dean. I don't always accept the party line or convention. In fact some of my methods might seem unconventional but they work for me. Had to learn through experience some things have a wide latitude and others don't. I try to work within the boundaries I've set for myself. 
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Offline kgs

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AM »
I hear ya Dean. I don't always accept the party line or convention. In fact some of my methods might seem unconventional but they work for me. Had to learn through experience some things have a wide latitude and others don't. I try to work within the boundaries I've set for myself. 

Agree with Euge and Dean. Part of the joy of homebrewing is testing the bounds of the party line or convention. I have twice successfully used a starter method suggested by one homebrewer at the LHBS (someone whose advice generally makes sense) where I make a starter in the carboy and pitch the wort on top of it. I was skeptical, and I had arguments against it (not enough depth for the starter, layer of oxygenated beer you can't really pour off easily, etc.), but the ease of it was tempting so I tried it, and the two times I used that method, the fermentation took off like a rocket and the beer turned out great.

But mostly I pitch an unhydrated packet of US-05 into wort at or just under 70 degrees f, and it works out fine, and if there are millions of tiny screams as yeast cells die, I don't hear them. Especially for my 3-gallon batches of ale or stout, there's no reason one packet of dry yeast isn't plenty. The next time I do a "repeater" I may reconstitute the yeast in 90-degree water and time the fermentation to see if it is all that faster/heartier. That said, a few dead cells seem a reasonable tradeoff for eliminating a possible contamination opportunity at a vulnerable point in the brewing process, post-brew and pre-fermentation.
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Offline dean

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2011, 11:19:12 AM »
I think the problem is nobody does anything the exact same.   :D  Sean (a10T2) did a yeast pitching test with a number of volunteers and shared the results they found but did anyone actually do everthing the exact same or not?  You can follow a procedure but it doesn't mean that you've every situation, circumstance or event etc during the procedure were equal... maybe it could be done in high profile laboratory setting but even then there could be some variance attributed I would guess.  Since none of us have that tight of a quality control lab setting I don't see how a conclusion could be reached for the general brewing public? 

I mean come on... things are getting so superstitious that people are probably monitoring the temperature of their starsan solution now.   ::)   :D   RDWHAHB...   ;)

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2011, 07:06:29 PM »
Sean (a10T2) did a yeast pitching test with a number of volunteers and shared the results they found but did anyone actually do everthing the exact same or not?

You lost me there. Are you maybe thinking of the BBR/BYO experiment where everyone who participated brewed on their own?
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Offline dean

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2011, 07:13:08 PM »
Yeh... wasn't that you?

Offline BrewQwest

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2011, 12:50:04 PM »
Ok, I am a bit confused here.... Back on page 1 of this thread, The quotation by clayton cone states that each gram of the dried yeast contains 20 billion live yeast cells.  But on their own web site they quote different quantities. See here for the spec sheet on their Nottingham yeast: http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf
Item 2 states they have more than 5 Billion cells (5 x 109 =5 billion right) per gram but
Item 4 of that pdf file states 100 grams in 100 hectoliters gives you a density of only 5 - 10 million cells per milliliter. This could be equivalently scaled to 10 grams at 10 liters or only 2.64 gallons. Which would mean I would need 20 grams for 5 gallons just to give me a max of 10 million cells per milliliter. Furthermore, if you look up SafeAles S-05 pdf sheet, you will find only 6 billiion yeast cells per gram. Meaning a 11 gram sachet would only have a maximum of 66 billion yeast cells!! Or am I computing wrongly here... ??? Is not 6 x 109 not equal to 6 billion??
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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2011, 02:38:19 PM »
Yeh... wasn't that you?

In Sean's experiment, he brewed all the beer and sent it out to people.
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Offline tubercle

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2011, 02:57:32 PM »
Ok, I am a bit confused here.... Back on page 1 of this thread, The quotation by clayton cone states that each gram of the dried yeast contains 20 billion live yeast cells.  But on their own web site they quote different quantities. See here for the spec sheet on their Nottingham yeast: http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf
Item 2 states they have more than 5 Billion cells (5 x 109 =5 billion right) per gram but
Item 4 of that pdf file states 100 grams in 100 hectoliters gives you a density of only 5 - 10 million cells per milliliter. This could be equivalently scaled to 10 grams at 10 liters or only 2.64 gallons. Which would mean I would need 20 grams for 5 gallons just to give me a max of 10 million cells per milliliter. Furthermore, if you look up SafeAles S-05 pdf sheet, you will find only 6 billiion yeast cells per gram. Meaning a 11 gram sachet would only have a maximum of 66 billion yeast cells!! Or am I computing wrongly here... ??? Is not 6 x 109 not equal to 6 billion??

 It also says "Nottingham British Ale yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The yeast contains an
adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is
unnecessary to aerate wort."
(emphasis mine)
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Offline beersk

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2011, 09:20:18 AM »
Eh, I still use the shake method in 6.5 gallon carboys.  Might as well aerate at least somewhat with dry yeast, eh?
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Offline bluesman

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2011, 10:26:02 AM »
Might as well aerate at least somewhat with dry yeast, eh?

Yes. I always aerate the wort whether I'm using liquid or dry. They need the O2 to go to battle.  :)
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2011, 10:56:08 AM »
Ok, I am a bit confused here.... Back on page 1 of this thread, The quotation by clayton cone states that each gram of the dried yeast contains 20 billion live yeast cells.  But on their own web site they quote different quantities. See here for the spec sheet on their Nottingham yeast: http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf
Item 2 states they have more than 5 Billion cells (5 x 109 =5 billion right) per gram but
Item 4 of that pdf file states 100 grams in 100 hectoliters gives you a density of only 5 - 10 million cells per milliliter. This could be equivalently scaled to 10 grams at 10 liters or only 2.64 gallons. Which would mean I would need 20 grams for 5 gallons just to give me a max of 10 million cells per milliliter. Furthermore, if you look up SafeAles S-05 pdf sheet, you will find only 6 billiion yeast cells per gram. Meaning a 11 gram sachet would only have a maximum of 66 billion yeast cells!! Or am I computing wrongly here... ??? Is not 6 x 109 not equal to 6 billion??

A hectoliter is 100 liters. so 100 hectoliters = 10,000 liters so that's .01 grams per liter or .1 gram per 10 liters or 1 gram per 100 liters to hit that 5-10 million cells per milliliter.
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Offline BrewQwest

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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2011, 10:24:24 AM »
A hectoliter is 100 liters. so 100 hectoliters = 10,000 liters so that's .01 grams per liter or .1 gram per 10 liters or 1 gram per 100 liters to hit that 5-10 million cells per milliliter.

thanks for correcting my math... I originally figured 10 grams to 10 liters which I see now was way off.... but does the correct answer of only 1 gram to 1 hectoliter (100 liters) giving 5-10 million cells per milliliter seem wierd to anybody else??? cheers!!
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Re: US-05...Is One Packet Enough?
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2011, 04:02:34 PM »
but does the correct answer of only 1 gram to 1 hectoliter (100 liters) giving 5-10 million cells per milliliter seem wierd to anybody else??? cheers!!

That must be a mistake. I think they meant to say 100 g per 100 L, or 100 g per hL, but instead wrote both.
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